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Thread: U 106 Volga & Caspan Regions(Tatars, Udmurts, Mordovians, Turkmens, Uzbeks&Kazakhs)

  1. #1
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    U 106 Volga & Caspan Regions(Tatars, Udmurts, Mordovians, Turkmens, Uzbeks&Kazakhs)

    Who can tell smthing about it, how it possible in so far regions. Now we know that 4% of Tatars have u106, and specifically Z2. 4.5% udmurts and 1.5% Mordvins also have u106 unknown subclades. Also, a few percent of u106 is in Turkmen and Uzbeks. Perhaps quite a bit there and the Kazakhs. Who what thinks about this

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    I am curious to know where you are getting these figures from. I try to collect such information for U106 and have not seen these before. I would admit to "blindly" concentrating on Western Europe.

    U106 is certainly large enough, and old enough, to have traveled far and wide.
    Gedmatch DNA: M032736 Gedcom: 6613110.
    Gedmatch Genesis: WH4547538
    co-administrator: Y-DNA R-U106 Haplogroup Project

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    well, I guess I cheated a little. I just had a desire to post a spectacular opening speech, similar to the sensational news. In any case, Tatars actually have 4% U106 with SNP markers. As for Udmurts and Mordvin, I don’t presume to judge that they were snps, but the tables show percentages and they really are. In Turkmen, it was due to predictors. They of course basically show u-152. But I saw one with u106. In any case, Turkmen generally have a major haplogroup r1b, and half of them are just such European subclades. As for Uzbeks and Kazakhs, this is not even predictor information, but an assumption. Although 1 Uzbek (by father) definitely has u106 - it's just me. In any case, r1b among Uzbeks is 9–13%. Of these, 4-5% are considered at least m269. Why not assume that at least 1% or 0.5% belong to l11 different branches

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wing Genealogist View Post
    I would admit to "blindly" concentrating on Western Europe.

    .
    The principles of the Tatars and Mordovians have long been shown on classic maps. But it is obvious that if you do not focus attention, you will not notice them on the map.

    R S21..png

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    I'm not aware of any U106 among the Turkmen.

    I analysed some of the Central Asian R1b STRs from the early 00's a couple years ago. Grugni et al. 2012 found ~4% of Iranian Turkmen belonged to R1b-L23* (no further downstream SNPs tested). Zhabagin et al. 2017 found between 0-5% of Transoxanian Central Asians were R1b-M269 (no further downstream SNPs tested).

    The only known case of R1b-U106 from that part of the world in an academic paper I'm aware of is Di Cristafaro et al. 2013, which found a single sample in northern Iran (an R1b-U152 was found there too). The only R1b sample found among their Turkmen was L23*(xU106,U152).

    Di Cristafaro's data indicates that pretty much all of the R1b found in modern Turkmen, Uzbeks and other populations in the region are L23*(xU106,U152), which aligns with populations found further west (Iranians, Kurds, Armenians, Azerbaijanis). Though it should be noted that R1b-M73 is also found at varying frequencies across the Eurasian heartland too.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to DMXX For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (11-11-2018),  Michał (11-12-2018),  rms2 (11-18-2018),  Ryukendo (02-05-2019),  Scat (11-11-2018)

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    Uzbeks have l11 and by predictor this is exactly u-106
    5b682ee1a76c.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    Uzbeks have l11 and by predictor this is exactly u-106
    Given how rare this subclade is in the region, it's best to appraise frequencies as fractions rather than percentages (particularly as the sample sizes aren't massive).

    Karafet et al. 2015 indicates R1b-L11 has a frequency of 1/74. YFull has it at 1/176. As your chart indicates, a minority of Uzbek R1b belongs to L11.

    The YFull Uzbek belongs to the Madjar tribe, which a previous study indicated could have ties to the Hungarian people (Magyars). Some strange bidirectional movement could hypothetically account for R1b-L11 among the Uzbek Madjars, but I'm not aware of any historical evidence supporting this and the paper finding this connection was only based on Y-STRs, so I'd assess this as a red herring.

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    There is an old job in 2002 for Uzbeks, where there are un-typed ones. They are all represented simply as P-M45
    A check on the predictor revealed the following:

    uz-s100 P-M45 100%
    According to the predictor, Q M346> Z780 67.2%

    uz-s115 P-M45 100%
    According to the predictor R1b U106> Z381> Z156 44.5% R1b U106 * 16.7%
    uz-s91 P-M45 92%
    According to the predictor, R1b Z2103> L584 50.3% R1b ZZ12> ZZ39 22.1%
    uz-s110 R1b1b2-M269 86%
    According to the predictor, R1b U152> L2 * 47.9% R1b U106> Z381> Z156 14.7%

    uz-s113 R1a1a1 * -Unclustered-M417 * (xM458, L365) 86%
    According to the predictor R1a, M458 Central Europe 78.8%

    uz-s114 P-M45 85%
    According to the predictor R1a M458 Central Europe 97%

    uz-s112 R1a1a1 * -Unclustered-M417 * (xM458, L365) 84%
    According to the predictor, R1a Z93> Z94> Z2123 42% R1a Z93> Z94> Z2124> YP413 14.3%
    uz-s92 R1b-M343 52%
    According to the predictor R1b U106 * 82.5%

    U58 R1a1a1 * -Unclustered-M417 * (xM458, L365) 68%
    According to the predictor, R1a Z93> Z94> Z2123 63% R1a Z93> Z94> Z2124> YP413 24%
    U67 R1a1a1 * -Unclustered-M417 * (xM458, L365) 76%
    According to the predictor, R1a Y2395> Z284> YP556 33.3% R1a Z93> Z94> Z2124> YP413 17.8%


    U68 R1a1a1 * -Unclustered-M417 * (xM458, L365) 52%
    According to the predictor, R1a Y2395> Z284> Z287 57.5% R1a Z93> Z94> Z2123 32.9%

    As we see from these P-M45, there are 4 R1b results, of which 2 results, that is, half of all R1b - U106. 1 result is probably more than U152 according to the predictor, but the probability of U106 is also available !! And only 1 result Z2103. Thus, it may well be that u106 occupies a significant share among Uzbek R1b

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    YFull has it at 1/176.
    Well, give me 400$ and I will do bigY and will be sampling 2/177. Or it will not be considered? I mean, in Yfull, just 176 Uzbeks who did themselves bigY or was it a special job (with a scientifically based sample)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    There is an old job in 2002 for Uzbeks, where there are un-typed ones. They are all represented simply as P-M45
    Zerjal et al., correct? They didn't genotype anywhere near a sufficient number of STR's for accurate SNP prediction.

    Per Haber et al., none of the few Afghan Uzbek R1b's belonged to U106. Their R1b subclades are typical for the region (West-Central Asia, Iran inclusive).

    Thus, it may well be that u106 occupies a significant share among Uzbek R1b
    For the reasons outlined in this and the previous post, that isn't likely. It is there, but it comprises a minority of Uzbek R1b.

    Combining the Karafet and YFull figures, you're looking at 2/250 Uzbeks who are R1b-L11+. That's less than 1%. There's more Y-DNA H in Uzbekistan than there is R1b-L11.

    Is there a particular reason you're repeatedly advocating this perception that R1b-U106 is prominent in the region (it isn't)?

    Well, give me 400$ and I will do bigY and will be sampling 2/177. Or it will not be considered? I mean, in Yfull, just 176 Uzbeks who did themselves bigY or was it a special job (with a scientifically based sample)?
    That only 2/250 Uzbeks sampled with Y-SNP's so far (increases to 2/270 if we include Haber et al.) readily indicates the general picture.

    [Edit]: I note your Y-DNA and your self-designation (Uzbek and Tatar), so there's obviously some special pleading on personal grounds going on here.

    I'm afraid the data doesn't objectively demonstrate what you'd like it to.

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