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Thread: Thoughts on my DNA results? New here.

  1. #1
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    Thoughts on my DNA results? New here.

    To All:

    Hello. How is everyone? I am a new member with a very strong interest in ancestral DNA, recorded history, and various Internet theories regarding ancestry and DNA. I do not hold advanced degrees in genetics or anthropology. However, through my own research, I have read quite a lot about DNA, ancestral DNA, Irish history, British history, and American history. Please forgive me if I am posting in the wrong section. But I would like to share my results with other experienced individuals in this field and see what others think.

    All four of my grandparents were born and raised in Ireland, specifically Limerick (paternal) and Leitrim (maternal). Seven out of eight of my ancestral surnames are of Gaelic origin. One is of Norman ancestry. I have tested with five of the six major companies. I am also awaiting the results of my Y-DNA from LivingDNA. Below I will post my results. Please I would like serious input on people's thoughts of my results. Also, do my results indicate Celtic or pre-Celtic DNA? If so, could this be indicative of the Roman scholars Celtic tribes of Ireland. Or is it true that DNA tests cannot go further back than six or seven generations. Here are the results.

    AncestryDNA: 100 percent Ireland/Scotland.
    MyHeritage: 99.2 percent Ireland/Scotland/Wales, .08 Middle East
    FamilyTreeDNA: 85 percent British Isles, 14 percent Europe East
    LivingDNA: Awaiting Results
    WeGene: predicted haplogroup S-219/Rs-z255
    GedMatch: All Eurogenes tests came back Orkney, Orcadian, Danish, West Scottish, Norwegian

    Thoughts would be appreciated. Especially since on Gedmatch, the above populations were close to my sample and Ireland/Irish was not as close. Do you think WeGene is accurate?

    Thanks,

    CeltsScholar

  2. #2
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    I think Ancestry is the most accurate here. I have seen other 100% Irish people score more closely to Danish and Orcadian and Norwegian than Irish before

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    Commercial DNA tests come up with calculator bias because all of the components of Irish ancestry are sucked into the "Irish" category, including British, Scandinavian, etc. You would have to be excessively Scandinavian or British for instance to not score 100% Irish.

    The GEDmatch results showing similarity to Scandinavia show what we actually know to be true: significant parts of Ireland have a high amount of Norse ancestry, and I have particularly noticed this to be true in the western part of Ireland from Limerick up to around Mayo, as well as in the area around Wexford on the east coast.

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    Thanks for your responses thus far. I hope there are more. But I'm not sure if I agree with the entire Ireland and Scandinavia connection. Who were the Vikings/Norse? Where did they come from? One reputable scholar says that the men of Ireland now are 70 percent descendants of the Gaels, 15 Viking, and the remaining Norman and Gallowglass. Other very reputable studies are saying that the Irish of the last 4,000 years descended from peoples originating in the Steppes. And another theory, very strong, is that when the last ice age occurred Britain and Ireland were populated by groups of people which have been virtually untouched except for recent additions. I'm just not so sure that I believe in the entire Scandinavia and Ireland connection, specially relating to Wexford, Limerick, and the west of Ireland. Were the Norse/Vikings there, yes to an extent. Enough to influence a genetic population, not so sure about that. Thoughts?

  6. #5
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    Regarding your haplogroup, you are under R-S219 or R-Z255, which is a subclade of R1b, (81% at Ireland) very typical of Irish people.

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    Thanks for the reply. Yes, that is my haplogroup. It was given to me after I uploaded to WeGene. Not so sure it is exact. I've heard some speculative things about WeGene. Assuming I am R-Z255, do you know much about this subclade?

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltsScholar View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Yes, that is my haplogroup. It was given to me after I uploaded to WeGene. Not so sure it is exact. I've heard some speculative things about WeGene. Assuming I am R-Z255, do you know much about this subclade?
    To start with, you belong to R1b. R1b most likely originated at Northern Mesopotamia or Eastern Anatolia. It was carried by some herders who domesticated cows and sheeps etc.. (along other haplogroups like J1, J2 and G). Some of these R1b men, migrated later to the Pontic-Caspian steppes. These men would become nomads and would domesticate the horse at the area of modern-day Kazakhstan. These people would form a culture called "Yamna".

    From the Yamna, these invaders would later invade the heartland of Europe, at that time, Europe would have been populated by Farmers, who were of Near Eastern extract (carrying farmer lineages like G, J2, E1b1b, T and some Middle Eastern R1b subclades like R-V88 and bringing Wheat, Rye and Barley and domesticated animals) AND people of original European hunter-gatherer lineage (haplogroup I who would assimilate into the farming society).

    They would form the Corded Ware culture between c. 2900 BCE – circa 2350 BCE. From there on, they would disperse into Europe.

    That is, the story of R1b in Europe summed up in a somewhat messy way. I might have gotten something inaccurately.

    As for your subclade, it's was most certainly carried by the Celts. It falls R-L21, the most common branch at Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland. What's also interesting is that almost all of the matches at your subclade are Irish.
    Last edited by Moe12; 11-11-2018 at 08:21 AM.

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    ADogsSon,

    Thanks for the response. I love good discussion and vigorous debate. Yes, Wexford, Waterford, Dublin, Limerick and other settlements in Ireland have Scandinavian names. There is not doubt. But does that mean that there is a significant Scandinavian element or genetic influence? For example, when the English colonized North America they retained the names Chicago and Toronto. Both of these names are of the Native American tongue, yet do we find many natives in those cities? Not in the least.

    Accordingly, I'm as pure Irish as one can get it. Even more so than people currently living in Ireland. My paternal home town is Ballysteen on the north side of County Limerick, right on the Shannon River. Ballysteen itself is a Scandinavian name, meaning, "place of the stone." Yet, three out of four of my surnames on my paternal side are of Gaelic origin. One is of Norman origin. According, to Roman/Greek scholars, in these areas were the Celtic tribes Ui Fidegente, Corca Loidge, Dal Cas, and others. How can we differentiate between the layers of populations that were there? Again, do naming mechanisms mean the places had lots of people from the group naming them or giving them that name?

    As for who the Vikings/Norse were, I really do not know. Apparently, they came from present day Denmark, Netherlands, Sweden, and Norway. They were norse/northmen, great at sea travel, trading, metal work, fighting and raiding. They were tall, blond/red, beard and pagan. But is this true? Can we really believe this? Did these men really get in boats, crash in to Gaelic Ireland, fight, remain, and get drive out of Ireland. Then name towns. I think the more logical solution is that these Norse showed up in Ireland, brought new technologies, and gave names. More likely to intermix with the population. I'm not sure if they arrived in great numbers. My father looks like a Dane to the exact match, yet carries a Gaelic surname. How does one differentiate?

    As for the reputable sholar, I cannot divulge his name. Just a person I came across on the Internet who seems to be matching up the commercial DNA with place names and surnames. His theories seem pretty good to me. But, again, I do not hold advanced degrees in genetics and/or anthropology. I made that clear. But for an amateur, I'm pretty advanced or at least I'd like to think so. I think history, movies, family lore, and things of that nature have really gone a bit overboard with regard to Ireland and Britain for that matter. Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Celts, Gaels, Normans, Picts, and what not. Do you really believe these formalized groups settled and were in Ireland and Britain for that matter? It just seems to me, to be a creation. Upper classes and scholars from the far past who theorized and put this forward.

    Speaking of which did you read the Book of Invasions? Written by Roman Catholic scholars in Ireland trying to put forward a thought of where the Irish came from and how they came in to existence. Well, the DNA testing seems to be going completely against this written, historical scholarship. Way against it. I think the same can be said for latter settlement by Scandinavian tribes. A bit overboard.

    As for real Irish towns, I do not get this. Like I said, my DNA has come back much purer than people who are currently living in Ireland. In fact, a lot purer. What makes a person real Irish? Or lay claim to a certain nation/tribe? Not looking at a map to find a town? That makes no sense. Very little. Yes, there are people in Ireland that have pale skin, blue eyes, and golden blonde hair. No doubt. For example, Damon Duff the Irish footballer from Dublin. But then there are very dark Irish. And don't get started with the Irish coming from Iberia, Spanish Armada, and the like. Don't remotely bring that up.

    Who said the Irish looked English. I never said or thought that. Not remotely. Anyone who thinks that, well, let us just leave that alone. No idea where you got that, buddy.

    A lot of these responses seem to be canned without serious thought or vigorous discussion. Again, a lot of theories a bit overboard. And this comes from a real man of Eire.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    . . . R1b most likely originated at Northern Mesopotamia or Eastern Anatolia . . .
    Hardly.
    Last edited by rms2; 11-11-2018 at 11:37 PM.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  12. #10
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    Ancestry's new "smoothing" algorithm is pretty poor if you expect to find more distant ancestry- I scored only English and Welsh/Irish and Scottish when I have more distant Romani and Jewish ancestry.

    I plan to do 23andme after Christmas- this is apparently better at picking up distant admixture than Ancestry, even if it tests fewer SNPs and is prone to overestimating said admixture (for example, a person could score 95% British and Irish and 5% French and German when the actual number is closer to 98/2).

    Have you tried DNA Land yet? (dna.land)
    Ancestry- 57% Irish and Scottish, 43% English, Welsh and Northwestern European
    DNA Land- 96% Northwest European, 2% South European, 2% Ambiguous Western Eurasian
    Myheritage- 72.4% English, 13.6% Irish/Scottish/Welsh, 12.6% North and West European, 1.4% Balkan
    23andme- coming soon Hidden Content
    Living DNA- HOPEFULLY coming soon Hidden Content

    PM me for my GEDmatch numbers.

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