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Thread: Portugueses no Global25

  1. #161
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    Asturias Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by Andour View Post
    Muito obrigado.

    Eu tenho outra pergunta. Na França, os arquivos municipais foram colocados online alguns anos atrás (para facilitar a pesquisa genealógica). É este o caso em Portugal? Se sim, alguém tem um link?
    De nada Andour.

    Sim, está tudo disponível em www.tombo.pt só tens de escolher o distrito, concelho e freguesia.
    Algumas freguesias só têm registos até ~1850, mas outras vão até 1500. É uma questão de sorte
    Last edited by Ruderico; 04-01-2020 at 01:14 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.3492"

    Ruderico

    Celt+Iberia,85
    North_African,10.2
    Rome_Imperial,4.8

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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Sim, está tudo disponível em www.tombo.pt só tens de escolher o distrito, concelho e freguesia.
    Algumas freguesias só têm registos até ~1850, mas outras vão até 1500. É uma questão de sorte
    Copiado et armazenado... Obrigado, uma vez mais. Vai ser muito útil para mim, e minha família (estendida).
    Immi uiros rios toutias rias

  4. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Edit: There may be an issue with the Empuries reference, maybe excel messed up the negative signs while copying because all the coordinates are positive and they shouldn't be. It's definitely plotting in the wrong place.
    Thanks for the notification. The Empuries sample isn't a problem - I can deal with him/it on my own : it is one of those that are closest to me on PCAs (as is Hallstatt DA111, by the way) , so we are well acquainted with each other.
    Immi uiros rios toutias rias

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  6. #164
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    Asturias Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by Andour View Post
    Thanks for the notification. The Empuries sample isn't a problem - I can deal with him/it on my own : it is one of those that are closest to me on PCAs (as is Hallstatt DA111, by the way) , so we are well acquainted with each other.
    Just to be on the safe side, because I don't want people to copy mistaken data, I'll edit the previous one and post the update here.

    This error might actually increase the Iberia_IA portion of some of us in these simple models, since it'll be quite good for a few individuals. For me it's useless. The closest matches are still the Celtiberian and the Hallstatt references, both are virtually at the same distance, and with very similar correlation, for whatever reason.
    I find it very interesting where the old cline seemed to have been, very "northern" compared to us modern individuals.

    Code:
    Guanche_EMA,-0.00346,0.01294,-0.00062,-0.02128,0.01096,-0.01304,-0.01276,0.00358,0.03466,0.01676,0.00466,-0.004,0.01228,-0.01286,0.0171,-0.00984,0.00244,-0.01516,-0.03526,0.00832,-0.0108,-0.0305,0.01888,-0.00098,0.00386
    North_African,-0.005963158,0.013357895,-0.000984211,-0.024810526,0.009926316,-0.013673684,-0.014247368,0.004268421,0.039957895,0.018736842,0.005947368,-0.005673684,0.015889474,-0.014847368,0.015852632,-0.012289474,0.000347368,-0.022842105,-0.045942105,0.010221053,-0.016910526,-0.043484211,0.026542105,-0.003405263,0.007215789
    Iberia_IA:Celtiberian,0.011,0.0141,0.01725,0.00355,0.01885,0.0012,-0.00145,0.00195,0.01275,0.0192,-0.00135,0.0059,-0.0114,-0.0062,0.0079,5e-05,-0.00635,7e-04,-1e-04,-6e-04,0.0066,0.0019,-0.00575,-0.0098,-0.0051
    Iberia_IA:Iberian,0.0109375,0.0146625,0.014975,0.000675,0.01945,-0.0011375,-0.00155,0.0019375,0.0146625,0.025725,-0.0029,0.0074125,-0.0157125,-0.01055,0.0057875,0.00425,0.0052,0.001275,0.003025,-0.000825,0.0044625,-7.5e-05,-0.005975,-0.0102875,-0.0009375
    Iberia_IA:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local,0.0113,0.014,0.0145333333333333,0.00636666666666667,0.0137333333333333,0.00153333333333333,-0.0002,0.000966666666666666,0.0110666666666667,0.0165,-0.0025,0.00826666666666667,-0.0143666666666667,-0.0154333333333333,0.00756666666666667,0.0043,0.00513333333333333,-0.000166666666666667,0.00286666666666667,-0.00113333333333333,0.00526666666666667,0.00336666666666667,-0.0026,-0.00506666666666667,0.00256666666666667
    Germanic_IA,0.0119,0.012,0.0221,0.0224,0.0154,0.007,-0.004,0.0022,0.0056,7e-04,7e-04,0.0017,-0.0074,-0.0099,0.0255,0.0089,-0.0035,0.0013,0.0096,0.0155,3e-04,-0.001,-0.0038,-0.0017,0.0045
    Rome_Imperial,0.0090229,0.0146708,-0.0062979,-0.0178188,0.0014208,-0.0072875,-0.0005688,-0.0021438,0.0002062,0.0106104,0.0019917,0.0015396,-0.0026375,-0.0011021,-0.0059188,-0.0013562,0.0028938,0.0004229,0.0010604,-0.0024729,-0.0019583,0.0015146,-0.0007271,-0.0004042,0.0004729
    Hallstatt_Celt:DA111,0.0109,0.0149,0.0168,0.0081,0.0142,0.0021,0.0005,0.001,0.0102,0.0134,-0.0076,0.0001,-0.0112,-0.0023,0.0108,-0.0072,-0.014,0.003,0.0047,0.0013,0.0079,0.0049,-0.0036,-0.0049,-0.0044
    Levant_Roman,0.007675,0.014375,-0.015275,-0.02705,-0.0036,-0.009975,-0.003325,-0.003225,0.0038,0.007275,0.001675,-0.006475,0.00865,-0.001925,-0.007075,0.007725,0.0013,-0.000925,0.002075,0.00265,-2e-04,0.003625,-0.0029,-7e-04,-0.004

    This is where it should plot with my current list of modern references
    Last edited by Ruderico; 04-01-2020 at 01:51 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.3492"

    Ruderico

    Celt+Iberia,85
    North_African,10.2
    Rome_Imperial,4.8

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  8. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    I find it very interesting where the old cline seemed to have been, very "northern" compared to us modern individuals.
    As concerns the Bronze age, I used to think that the distance between ancient and modern samples could be due to the social structure of the time : if newcomers from the north arrive with different funerary traditions, and, besides, supersede the locals without at first blending much with them, then their remains will be better preserved, in "aristocratic" tombs - and easier for modern archaeologists / geneticists to spot and analyse. Maybe the samples we have are from a sort of social supertstrate... Iberian patricians and plebs, sort of.

    Problem : I find it strange that this state of affairs should have endured until the late Iron Age. Maybe the Roman conquest, besides adding in some genes of its own, had a levelling effect on the previous social structure, and led to people mixing on more egalitarian bases afterwards, regardless of previous "castes". Hence a resurgence of "farmer" admixture. (?)

    Just food for thought...
    Immi uiros rios toutias rias

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  10. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Just to be on the safe side, because I don't want people to copy mistaken data, I'll edit the previous one and post the update here.
    Podrías hacer algo de tu magia con unas coordenadas que tengo? es de un compa de otro foro. Tiene el yamnaya más elevado que he visto en un ibérico hasta ahora, debe ser algo germánico.

    Si me dices que sí te paso las coordenadas por privado.

    Estos son sus resultados del Davidski:

    Distance: 3.7151% / 0.03715138
    51.6 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    35.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    9.8 WHG
    3.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian

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  12. #167
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    Sim, claro, não custa nada
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.3492"

    Ruderico

    Celt+Iberia,85
    North_African,10.2
    Rome_Imperial,4.8

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  14. #168
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    It's me again. No, don't worry, I do not intend to permanently "invade and settle" your Portuguese thread!

    I just wanted to share my people's results with your (ie, Ruderico's) model. My own results are some distance away from those of the Portuguese forumers here. But I'm surprised how Iberian my wife is, and, by way of consequence, to a lesser degree, my daughter as well. My wife usually scores 13.6 % WHG. Maybe it "basqu-ifies" her a little. The strange thing is that her genealogical paper trail keeps her extremely local - pure "home-made" product.

    Well, anyway, in case it is of interest to someone, here we go :

    Aggregate off :

    Target: Andour -- Distance: 1.6962% / 0.01696234
    45.6 Hallstatt_Celt: DA111
    25.6 Rome_Imperial
    17.6 Iberia_IA:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local
    11.2 Germanic_IA

    Target: AndourDaughter -- Distance: 1.8900% / 0.01890014
    58.4 Iberia_IA:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local
    16.4 Rome_Imperial
    12.6 Hallstatt_Celt: DA111
    9.6 Germanic_IA
    3.0 Levant_Roman

    Target: AndourWife -- Distance: 1.5515% / 0.01551494
    54.6 Iberia_IA:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries_Local
    19.2 Rome_Imperial
    10.2 Iberia_IA:Celtiberian
    10.2 Iberia_IA:Iberian
    5.8 Germanic_IA

    Aggregate on :

    Target: AndourWife -- Distance: 1.5515% / 0.01551494
    75.0 Iberia_IA
    19.2 Rome_Imperial
    5.8 Germanic_IA
    Last edited by Andour; 04-01-2020 at 10:22 PM.
    Immi uiros rios toutias rias

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  16. #169
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    The model is probably not right for ethnic French, you probably needed some sort of different references than the Iberian ones from the Iron Age. We really need a study of ancient France, although I wouldn't be surprised if ancient Gauls and the Hallstatt reference end up being rather similar. There's also the "Celt" from Empuries, which I left out
    Last edited by Ruderico; 04-01-2020 at 10:32 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.3492"

    Ruderico

    Celt+Iberia,85
    North_African,10.2
    Rome_Imperial,4.8

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  18. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    The model is probably not right for ethnic French, you probably needed some sort of different references than the Iberian ones from the Iron Age. We really need a study of ancient France, although I wouldn't be surprised if ancient Gauls and the Hallstatt reference end up being rather similar. There's also the "Celt" from Empuries, which I left out
    May I ask what reference you used for Germanic Iron age?
    Hidden Content

    Eurogenes K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    1. 63.1% Swedish + 36.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.93

    Dodecad K12b
    1. 87,89% Szolad3 + 12,11% CHV001_Chalmny_Varre_18th-19th @ 1,131
    7. 66.4% Norwegian + 33.6% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 3.24


     

    Target: Nino
    Distance: 1.5423% / 0.01542331
    55.0 ISL_Viking_Age_Norse
    36.6 ITA_Rome_Latini_IA
    8.4 FIN_Levanluhta_IA2


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