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Thread: Portugueses no Global25

  1. #1
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    K1a3a

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    Portugueses no Global25

    Dedicado a tudo o que é relacionado com o G25 do Davidski.

    PCA em 13/11/2018:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhfn7ghnh7...13-11-2018.png

    Pelo que sei, até ao momento estão plotados 9 portugueses. Pede-se a quem for plotado, que diga aqui para ser sinalizado na imagem.
    Idealmente destinado a quem só tem ascendência portuguesa nas últimas 4 ou 5 gerações.

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     JMcB (01-10-2019),  RCO (11-14-2018),  Ruderico (11-14-2018)

  3. #2
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    K1a3a

    Portugal
    Scaled:

    joaoflima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    joaoflima_scaled,0.106994,0.145221,0.041106,-0.003876,0.043085,-0.003347,-0.006815,0.000462,0.031088,0.030616,-0.004547,0.006145,-0.011001,-0.00289,0.004886,-0.004906,-0.009779,-0.003167,-0.006159,-0.005878,-0.002246,-0.001731,0.005669,-0.003494,0.002634

    modeteftlima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    modeteftlima_scaled,0.104717,0.144205,0.038089,-0.004522,0.040931,-0.001116,-0.003995,0.003692,0.01943,0.025695,0.002598,0.0029 97,-0.013231,-0.013625,0.010043,0.002519,-0.001434,0.003801,-0.006034,0.002251,0.000374,-0.006677,0.003451,-0.001807,0.002874

    rxavierflima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    rxavierflima_scaled,0.110408,0.146236,0.039221,-0.001938,0.0437,-0.000837,-0.00235,0.004154,0.02802,0.028247,0.002111,0.00584 5,-0.013528,-0.007982,0.009365,-0.009679,-0.012517,-0.00038,0.00176,-0.007003,-0.004617,-0.006183,0.005793,-0.004338,0.004311

    matiasnlima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    matiasnlima_scaled,0.110408,0.147252,0.039221,-0.00323,0.0437,-0.006136,-0.004935,0.002077,0.028224,0.028064,-0.006008,0.000899,-0.009663,-0.00812,0.016558,-0.010209,-0.014081,-0.00228,-0.002765,-0.002626,0.002246,-0.005688,0.00419,-0.000241,0.002155

    elisabetenjoaquim:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    elisabetenjoaquim_scaled,0.103579,0.146236,0.04223 8,0.000646,0.046162,-0.00502,-0.004465,0.003,0.025565,0.025513,-0.003248,0.004346,-0.006838,-0.009634,0.010993,-0.003182,-0.003129,-0.002534,-0.006662,-0.001376,0.004243,-0.000247,0.000739,0.003494,0.00012

    armandoejoaquim:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    armandoejoaquim_scaled,0.101303,0.146236,0.040729, 0.004199,0.046778,-0.004462,-0.001645,0.001154,0.024134,0.023508,-0.000487,-0.001649,-0.004162,-0.007294,0.009772,0.00305,-0.001304,-0.002787,-0.00264,-0.005753,0.005116,0.001237,0.000739,-0.000482,-0.00012

    ermelindarcnunes:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    ermelindarcnunes_scaled,0.104717,0.146236,0.041106 ,0.000969,0.040623,-0.005299,-0.00094,0.005307,0.025156,0.026424,-0.006333,0.003597,-0.004757,-0.010597,0.012486,0.005701,0.005867,-0.004054,-0.006411,0.005628,0.003494,0.000371,0.008751,0.001 566,-0.005269


    Unscaled:

    joaoflima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    joaoflima,0.0094,0.0143,0.0109,-0.0012,0.014,-0.0012,-0.0029,0.0002,0.0152,0.0168,-0.0028,0.0041,-0.0074,-0.0021,0.0036,-0.0037,-0.0075,-0.0025,-0.0049,-0.0047,-0.0018,-0.0014,0.0046,-0.0029,0.0022

    modeteftlima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    modeteftlima,0.0092,0.0142,0.0101,-0.0014,0.0133,-0.0004,-0.0017,0.0016,0.0095,0.0141,0.0016,0.002,-0.0089,-0.0099,0.0074,0.0019,-0.0011,0.003,-0.0048,0.0018,0.0003,-0.0054,0.0028,-0.0015,0.0024

    rxavierflima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    rxavierflima,0.0097,0.0144,0.0104,-0.0006,0.0142,-0.0003,-0.001,0.0018,0.0137,0.0155,0.0013,0.0039,-0.0091,-0.0058,0.0069,-0.0073,-0.0096,-0.0003,0.0014,-0.0056,-0.0037,-0.005,0.0047,-0.0036,0.0036

    matiasnlima:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    matiasnlima,0.0097,0.0145,0.0104,-0.001,0.0142,-0.0022,-0.0021,0.0009,0.0138,0.0154,-0.0037,0.0006,-0.0065,-0.0059,0.0122,-0.0077,-0.0108,-0.0018,-0.0022,-0.0021,0.0018,-0.0046,0.0034,-0.0002,0.0018

    elisabetenjoaquim:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    elisabetenjoaquim,0.0091,0.0144,0.0112,0.0002,0.01 5,-0.0018,-0.0019,0.0013,0.0125,0.014,-0.002,0.0029,-0.0046,-0.007,0.0081,-0.0024,-0.0024,-0.002,-0.0053,-0.0011,0.0034,-0.0002,0.0006,0.0029,0.0001

    armandoejoaquim:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    armandoejoaquim,0.0089,0.0144,0.0108,0.0013,0.0152 ,-0.0016,-0.0007,0.0005,0.0118,0.0129,-0.0003,-0.0011,-0.0028,-0.0053,0.0072,0.0023,-0.001,-0.0022,-0.0021,-0.0046,0.0041,0.001,0.0006,-0.0004,-0.0001

    ermelindarcnunes:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    ermelindarcnunes,0.0092,0.0144,0.0109,0.0003,0.013 2,-0.0019,-0.0004,0.0023,0.0123,0.0145,-0.0039,0.0024,-0.0032,-0.0077,0.0092,0.0043,0.0045,-0.0032,-0.0051,0.0045,0.0028,0.0003,0.0071,0.0013,-0.0044

  4. #3
    Registered Users
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    K1a3a

    Portugal
    locais de nascimentos.jpg

    Lado paterno: joaoflima
    Lado materno: modeteftlima

  5. #4
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    E-Y31991 > PF4428
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    H20

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Xavier, apanhaste rodeiros na tua genealogia?
    Estive a procurar em Cinfães no século XIX e quase metade dos baptizados na freguesia da minha avó materna eram da Roda de Piães. Ou a zona era muitíssimo pobre (ainda hoje Cinfães é o 2º concelho com menor PIB/capita do continente) ou as pessoas gostavam muito de se enrolarem sem estarem casadas. Uns trisavós meus, também de Piães, eram tão pobres que não pagaram pelo casamento

    Tenho uma trisavó da Casa da Roda do Porto, apesar de ter casado e tido filhos em Cinfães
    Last edited by Ruderico; 01-09-2019 at 11:47 AM.
    G25 Hidden Content and Hidden Content distances
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    DEIBABOR
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    DEIBOBOR
    VISSAIEIGO
    BOR

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (01-10-2019)

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Xavier, apanhaste rodeiros na tua genealogia?
    Estive a procurar em Cinfães no século XIX e quase metade dos baptizados na freguesia da minha avó materna eram da Roda de Piães. Ou a zona era muitíssimo pobre (ainda hoje Cinfães é o 2º concelho com menor PIB/capita do continente) ou as pessoas gostavam muito de se enrolarem sem estarem casadas. Uns trisavós meus, também de Piães, eram tão pobres que não pagaram pelo casamento

    Tenho uma trisavó da Casa da Roda do Porto, apesar de ter casado e tido filhos em Cinfães
    Até ao momento só encontrei 1 exposto (Roda do Porto). Mas nos registos da minha freguesia encontrei dezenas de casos de expostos na Roda.
    A ideia que essa prática tornou-se comum no século XIX. O que tenho visto antes dessa altura (para além de filhos de mãe solteira e pai incógnito) são bebés deixados à porta de casas mais abastadas.
    Com a crescente perda de influência da igreja no século XIX, muitas mulheres solteiras que tinham filhos optavam por os deixar na Roda.

    Isso de metade dos baptizados da freguesia serem da Roda é estranho. Não sei como funcionava a distribuição das crianças expostas na Roda, mas talvez as colocassem em freguesias mais despopuladas. Talvez nessa freguesia houvessem famílias mais disponíveis para receber as crianças expostas das redondezas. Talvez tenha a ver com as amas de leite. Não sei. Mas podes por a questão no grupo do fb "Genealogia FB". É o maior grupo português de genealogia documental.

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  9. #6
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    H20

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by rxavierflima View Post
    Isso de metade dos baptizados da freguesia serem da Roda é estranho. Não sei como funcionava a distribuição das crianças expostas na Roda, mas talvez as colocassem em freguesias mais despopuladas. Talvez nessa freguesia houvessem famílias mais disponíveis para receber as crianças expostas das redondezas. Talvez tenha a ver com as amas de leite. Não sei. Mas podes por a questão no grupo do fb "Genealogia FB". É o maior grupo português de genealogia documental.
    Há folhas em que 4 de 5 indivíduos listados eram da "Roda de Piaens". Por comparação em Mangualde isso era muitíssimo menos comum (mas havia mais mães solteiras, tenho uma trisavó assim). Pelo que a minha avó e tia-avó me contaram Piães estava longe de ter muita gente abastada, mesmo malta com nomes menos plebeus "Pinto de Vasconcellos" eram jornaleiros, lavradores etc. Não havia grande riqueza ali, é só montanha e o Rio Douro, nem cidade tens ao pé.

    Eu suponho que as crianças eram transferidas para outros locais porque ali vivia pouca gente e eram pobres. Ao menos viviam num sítio bonito
    G25 Hidden Content and Hidden Content distances
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    DEIBABOR
    IGO
    DEIBOBOR
    VISSAIEIGO
    BOR

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (01-10-2019)

  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Há folhas em que 4 de 5 indivíduos listados eram da "Roda de Piaens". Por comparação em Mangualde isso era muitíssimo menos comum (mas havia mais mães solteiras, tenho uma trisavó assim). Pelo que a minha avó e tia-avó me contaram Piães estava longe de ter muita gente abastada, mesmo malta com nomes menos plebeus "Pinto de Vasconcellos" eram jornaleiros, lavradores etc. Não havia grande riqueza ali, é só montanha e o Rio Douro, nem cidade tens ao pé.

    Eu suponho que as crianças eram transferidas para outros locais porque ali vivia pouca gente e eram pobres. Ao menos viviam num sítio bonito
    Atenção que lavrador e jornaleiro é muito diferente. Os lavradores tinham terras ou alugavam-nas aos abastados, os jornaleiros eram gente pobre que trabalhava à jorna nas propriedades outros.


    Não percebi bem o teu relato. Essas crianças expostas na Roda de Piães eram crianças abandonadas nas freguesias em redor de Piães. Dali eram depois distribuidas por famílias disponíveis para as receber e mães de leite dessas freguesias, onde eram baptizadas. Certo?

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     Ruderico (01-10-2019)

  13. #8
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    H20

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by rxavierflima View Post
    Não percebi bem o teu relato. Essas crianças expostas na Roda de Piães eram crianças abandonadas nas freguesias em redor de Piães. Dali eram depois distribuidas por famílias disponíveis para as receber e mães de leite dessas freguesias, onde eram baptizadas. Certo?
    Suponho que sim, mas sem quaisquer certezas. O que te posso dizer de relatos de pessoas da geração da minha avó é que ali as pessoas eram bastante pobres, inclusive que a minha bisavó foi afastada da família por casar com o meu bisavô que era jornaleiro. A minha avó e as irmãs eram tratadas por "as filhas do Augusto" pelo próprio avô materno (que ironicamente também apareceu no registo de casamento como "jornaleiro", só quando teve as duas filhas foi "portador de malas de correio" ou simplesmente "correio")


    Edit: exemplo https://digitarq.advis.arquivos.pt/viewer?id=1054766 tiff 19 e 20. No 26 todos (6) são da Roda
    Last edited by Ruderico; 01-10-2019 at 02:15 PM.
    G25 Hidden Content and Hidden Content distances
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    DEIBABOR
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  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Suponho que sim, mas sem quaisquer certezas. O que te posso dizer de relatos de pessoas da geração da minha avó é que ali as pessoas eram bastante pobres, inclusive que a minha bisavó foi afastada da família por casar com o meu bisavô que era jornaleiro. A minha avó e as irmãs eram tratadas por "as filhas do Augusto" pelo próprio avô materno (que ironicamente também apareceu no registo de casamento como "jornaleiro", só quando teve as duas filhas foi "portador de malas de correio" ou simplesmente "correio")
    Olha eu já vou com 11 filhos de pai incógnito, sendo que 2 deles têm também mãe incógnita https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2vxenqnl3...s%26padres.png XD

  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Suponho que sim, mas sem quaisquer certezas. O que te posso dizer de relatos de pessoas da geração da minha avó é que ali as pessoas eram bastante pobres, inclusive que a minha bisavó foi afastada da família por casar com o meu bisavô que era jornaleiro. A minha avó e as irmãs eram tratadas por "as filhas do Augusto" pelo próprio avô materno (que ironicamente também apareceu no registo de casamento como "jornaleiro", só quando teve as duas filhas foi "portador de malas de correio" ou simplesmente "correio")


    Edit: exemplo https://digitarq.advis.arquivos.pt/viewer?id=1054766 tiff 19 e 20. No 26 todos (6) são da Roda
    Então essa freguesia era um destino muito importante das crianças expostas na Roda de Piães. Como disse, talvez essa freguesia não tivesse muita gente e a intenção fosse aumentar a população dessa freguesia.

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