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Thread: Ancient Yamnaya Hair and Eye color and Cheddar Man: do the same criticisms apply?

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    Ancient Yamnaya Hair and Eye color and Cheddar Man: do the same criticisms apply?

    Hello everyone. It's been almost a year since the Cheddar Man fiasco with the media and what not. I came across one user, JeanL, who made an excellent post about the problems with the cheddar man sample. The post can be found here:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post350270

    Going back four years, there was a study that claimed that the Yamanaya had dark hair and dark eyes (Wilde et al). It's entitled "Direct evidence for positive selection of skin, hair, and eye pigmentation in Europeans during the last 5,000 y
    http://www.pnas.org/content/111/13/4832


    But looking at the problems with the cheddar man sample, don't the same criticisms apply to the conclusions in the study above? The study only used 2 SNPs to make a judgment call on the samples in question (They only tested 48 ancient remains for hair color and eye color). They compared the frequency of TYR among these remains. But doesn't the overall half life of these 5000 year old remains further confound these results?
    http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...rspb.2012.1745


    Thank you for anyone who can help here
    Last edited by IphonePlus; 11-19-2018 at 07:55 PM.

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    Another note: JeanL said the following the struck me when reading his post about Cheddar Man :
    "The second paragraph provides very explicitly that they based most of their predictions on the SLC45A2 rs16891982 and SLC24A5 rs1426654 combo. However the above statement is inaccurate because we know that KO_1 the Hunter Gatherer from Hungary was already heterozygous for SLC24A5 rs1426654. As I demonstrated on a previous post on this very thread it becomes problematic when predictions are made based solely in those two SNPs; namely because it predicts Loschbour to be dark skinned when only using those two SNPs instead of being intermediate when using 7 SNPs."

    We don't have 7 SNPS tested for Wilde et al.

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    against the background of the neighbors of the Globular Amphora culture (EEF), they looked like Asians and traveled on carts like gypsies
    genetiker.wordpress.com/2018/02/24/pigmentation-of-ancient-southeastern-europeans/

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    Quote Originally Posted by IphonePlus View Post
    Hello everyone. It's been almost a year since the Cheddar Man fiasco with the media and what not. I came across one user, JeanL, who made an excellent post about the problems with the cheddar man sample. The post can be found here:

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post350270

    Going back four years, there was a study that claimed that the Yamanaya had dark hair and dark eyes (Wilde et al). It's entitled "Direct evidence for positive selection of skin, hair, and eye pigmentation in Europeans during the last 5,000 y
    http://www.pnas.org/content/111/13/4832


    But looking at the problems with the cheddar man sample, don't the same criticisms apply to the conclusions in the study above? The study only used 2 SNPs to make a judgment call on the samples in question (They only tested 48 ancient remains for hair color and eye color). They compared the frequency of TYR among these remains. But doesn't the overall half life of these 5000 year old remains further confound these results?
    http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...rspb.2012.1745


    Thank you for anyone who can help here
    From David Reich's book

    The fusion of these highly different populations into today’s West Eurasians is vividly evident in what might be considered the classic northern European look: blue eyes, light skin, and blond hair. Analysis of ancient DNA data shows that western European hunter-gatherers around eight thousand years ago had blue eyes but dark skin and dark hair, a combination that is rare today.33 The first farmers of Europe mostly had light skin but dark hair and brown eyes—thus light skin in Europe largely owes its origins to migrating farmers.34 The earliest known example of the classic European blond hair mutation is in an Ancient North Eurasian from the Lake Baikal region of eastern Siberia from seventeen thousand years ago.35 The hundreds of millions of copies of this mutation in central and western Europe today likely derive from a massive migration into the region of people bearing Ancient North Eurasian ancestry.
    So basically, Steppe people, not necessarily Yamnaya, contributed with the mutation for light hair, which was rare in Europe prior to the Bronze Age.
    The farmers added light skin in the Neolithic and the WHG had the mutation for blue eyes at some point prior to the Neolithic. We know that later on from mixing with WHG, some farmers are recorded to bear light eyes too.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.5% South Euro (41.8% Balkan), 22.4% East Euro, 7.3% Northwest Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi, 14.7% Broadly Euro, 1.8% East Asian
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%

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    Okay, so I think I will try my best to see if this makes sense: since more samples were tested in the Yamnaya study this might mean the conclusions in the 2014 study are more legitimate. But I mean the sample wasn't even above 100....so I really don't know...Any thoughts?

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    Okay thank you. So these sampels aren't really Yamnaya? If not I am confused.

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    Ruslan, Where was this data from? I can't find any sources for the chart.
    Last edited by IphonePlus; 11-19-2018 at 08:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    So basically, Steppe people, not necessarily Yamnaya, contributed with the mutation for light hair, which was rare in Europe prior to the Bronze Age.
    The farmers added light skin in the Neolithic and the WHG had the mutation for blue eyes at some point prior to the Neolithic. We know that later on from mixing with WHG, some farmers are recorded to bear light eyes too.
    https://genetiker.wordpress.com/pigmentation/
    Search for "Globular Amphora N"
    G25 Hidden Content and Hidden Content distances
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    DEIBABOR
    IGO
    DEIBOBOR
    VISSAIEIGO
    BOR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    https://genetiker.wordpress.com/pigmentation/
    Search for "Globular Amphora N"
    It's not quite helpful without the markers.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.5% South Euro (41.8% Balkan), 22.4% East Euro, 7.3% Northwest Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi, 14.7% Broadly Euro, 1.8% East Asian
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%

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    Blondes in Britain long before the invasion of steppe nomads. Beakers got fair hair from indigenous women
    genetiker.wordpress.com/2018/02/
    Last edited by ruslan; 11-19-2018 at 10:08 PM.

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