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Thread: From R-L23/L150 to R-PF7580 & L584

  1. #21
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    My upgrade to Y DNA 111 was completed. Results are on various projects, e.g.http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ion=ycolorized. -- also not clear to me why I am in the shown subgroup since L584 is +


    As expected did not result in any breakthrough on my matches. The only match which went to 111 moved from 6 to 9 steps. Perhaps will help the experts while waiting for the BigY.
    Last edited by Goldschlager; 01-11-2014 at 03:28 PM.
    G
    Y-DNA111/ Geno 2.0 /BigY- R1b1a2a2a - R-FGC14600
    mt- DNA FMS K1a1b1a
    MyO: 87 % Ashk Diasp, 7% - Asia Minor, 6% - East Europe

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldschlager View Post
    My upgrade to Y DNA 111 was completed. Results are on various projects, e.g.http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ion=ycolorized. -- also not clear to me why I am in the shown subgroup since L584 is +


    As expected did not result in any breakthrough on my matches. The only match which went to 111 moved from 6 to 9 steps. Perhaps will help the experts while waiting for the BigY.
    The R1b1a2 and Subclades project is out of date and superseded by the R1b and Subclades Gateway Project. The R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project correctly places you in the _b1. R1b1a2a2a: L23+ Z2103+ Z2105+ L584+ (Armenian, Assyrian, Jewish, Alevi, Laz, Ukrainian) section.

    @Goldschlager......What's the word on your Big Y?
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldschlager View Post
    My upgrade to Y DNA 111 was completed. Results are on various projects, e.g.http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ion=ycolorized. -- also not clear to me why I am in the shown subgroup since L584 is +


    As expected did not result in any breakthrough on my matches. The only match which went to 111 moved from 6 to 9 steps. Perhaps will help the experts while waiting for the BigY.
    I suspect L584 in Jews is potentially pre-Diaspora; one of my lines is Sephardi L584, modal from three cousins is Ysearch RS5ZY. What's your GD to that?
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  6. #24
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    My Ysearch code is WC5ZP. I got BigY results and will get the BAM file in two weeks and will send it to the site which does analysis.. I did not see L584 among the tested SNPs. And I am hoping some of the projects managers for several R1B etc projects will take a look to results.
    G
    Y-DNA111/ Geno 2.0 /BigY- R1b1a2a2a - R-FGC14600
    mt- DNA FMS K1a1b1a
    MyO: 87 % Ashk Diasp, 7% - Asia Minor, 6% - East Europe

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    The R1b1a2 and Subclades project is out of date and superseded by the R1b and Subclades Gateway Project. The R1b1a2 (P312- U106-) DNA Project correctly places you in the _b1. R1b1a2a2a: L23+ Z2103+ Z2105+ L584+ (Armenian, Assyrian, Jewish, Alevi, Laz, Ukrainian) section.
    The R1b and Subclades Gateway Project is not very well maintained either. I've been a part of the project for months and am still in the ungrouped section. Have sent e-mails to the admins but nothing has changed. I have discussed creating a new group for Z2103, Z2105 with some people when such SNP tests become available at FTDNA.

  9. #26
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    Thanks -- that's a very large GD of 27 but I see you have probable ties to the Shapiro/Spira/Spier/etc. group.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldschlager View Post
    My Ysearch code is WC5ZP. I got BigY results and will get the BAM file in two weeks and will send it to the site which does analysis.. I did not see L584 among the tested SNPs. And I am hoping some of the projects mangagers for several R1B etc projects will take a look to results.
    I have no doubt that the right people will be taking a very close look at your Big Y results. You have more data than any other R1b-L584. Until they chime-in, here's a couple of things.
    Big Y not covering L584 is disappointing. Thank you for taking that leap of faith and testing for L584 when did. This is from ISOGG Haplogroup R Private SNPs, Notes and Papers - 2014
    "L405/L584 (ChrY:27141305) is a triallelic SNP with allele values "A", "C", and "T". A value of "A" indicates haplogroup Y(xP) and is referred to as L405-. A value of "C" indicates haplogroup P and is referred to as L405+ and a value of "T" indicates haplogroup R1b1a2a1c and is referred to as L584+."
    ISOGG YBrowse - L584 http://ybrowse.isogg.org/cgi-bin/gb2...1917..28731917
    L584 Details http://ybrowse.isogg.org/cgi-bin/gb2...hrY%3Adatabase I wonder it that has anything to do with Big Y missing L584?
    Here's a couple of items from your data. Is Z2105+, Z2106- new information for R1b-L584 or confirming what was already known? Snapshot of the Z2103 tree
    Code:
    Type	Position	SNPName	Derived	OnTree	Reference-Genotype Confidence
    Known SNP		Z2105	Yes(+)	No	C	A	High
    Known SNP		Z2106	No(-)	No	G	G	High
    Known SNP		CTS7340	?	No	T	?	Unknown  Z2107
    Known SNP		Z2108	No(-)	No	C	C	High
    Known SNP		CTS1843	No(-)	No	T	T	High   Z2109
    Known SNP		CTS7822	No(-)	No	A	A	High   Z2110
    Known SNP		CTS9219	No(-)	No	G	G	High
    Known SNP		L277	No(-)	No	T	T	High
    Known SNP		PF7580	Yes(+)	No	C	A	High
    Known SNP		L583	No(-)	No	C	C	High
    Known SNP		L585	Yes(+)	No	A	A	High
    Known SNP		L943	No(-)	No	T	T	High
    Known SNP		L944	No(-)	No	T	T	High
    Known SNP		L945	No(-)	No	G	G	High
    Known SNP		L946	No(-)	No	T	T	High
    Quote Originally Posted by brygian View Post
    The R1b and Subclades Gateway Project is not very well maintained either. I've been a part of the project for months and am still in the ungrouped section. Have sent e-mails to the admins but nothing has changed. I have discussed creating a new group for Z2103, Z2105 with some people when such SNP tests become available at FTDNA.
    This is outside the scope of this thread. For the record, the R1b and Subclades Gateway Project administators have been very heplful to our R1b-Z2103 subclade. In the future, I think you will come to the same conclusion. They do an awesome job of moving people to the correct haplogroup project. Keep that in mind if anybody decides to start a haplogroup project. Z2103 and Z2105 have been available from FTDNA for several years. Try the advanced testing menu. I understand the fustration with the lack of respect for R1b-CTS7822/Z2110>CTS9216. Getting listed on the ISOGG tree will be the best answer.
    Last edited by Joe B; 04-19-2014 at 09:50 PM.
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

  11. #28
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    At the moment we have only a single BigY result (271988, Goldschlager) from L584+ branch. Fortunately, there is possibility to compare its with Assyrian 13750 data from Rootsi at al. 2013.

    Level Z2103/Z2105
    1) positive for both 13750 Assyrian and 271988 Goldschlager
    Z2103/CTS1078+, Z2105+, CTS9416+, Y:14629851+

    2) positive for 271988 Goldschlager and unknown for 13750 Assyrian
    S20902+

    3) positive for 13750 Assyrian and unknown for 271988 Goldschlager
    Z2104/PF7575?, Z2107/CTS7340?, PF7585?, Y:6687319?

    Level PF7580/L584

    1) positive for both 13750 Assyrian and 271988 Goldschlager
    PF7580+
    L584+
    Y:2814664+
    Y:17673462+
    Y:22625609+
    Y:22656448+
    Y:22659944+
    Y:22625609+
    Last edited by smal; 04-21-2014 at 06:54 AM.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by smal View Post
    At the moment we have only a single BigY result (271988, Goldschlager) from L584+ branch. Fortunately, there is possibility to compare its with Assyrian 13750 data from Rootsi at al. 2013.
    Thank you very much for the analysis.

  14. #30
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    Rathna asks me about the Assyrian 13750 SNPs negative in Goldschlager.
    From 45 SNPs specific for Assyrian 13750 from Rootsi at al. 2013 there are:
    1) 8 positive for both 13750 Assyrian and 271988 Goldschlager
    2) 2 (L943 and L945) positive for 13750 Assyrian and negative for 271988 Goldschlager
    3) 35 positive for 13750 Assyrian and unknown for 271988 Goldschlager. 25 of them are found in the regions designated in the .bed file but not included in .vcf file. The other 10 are probably not sequenced. Bam file could say more.
    Last edited by smal; 04-21-2014 at 06:21 PM.

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