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Thread: Griffin surname and When did we become Irish?

  1. #1
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    Griffin surname and When did we become Irish?

    I have had a hard time finding more info on my family. I have digital copies of various marriage registries and baptisms; all in Swords, Balbriggan, and Howth. My earliest ancestor Stephen Griffin (same name) was likely born around 1776. His wife was born about the same time. This would be my 4th GGF. Since all of my known/documented ancestors were in Dublin and I cannot push passed 1776 in this area, I thought about migration from another area of Ireland. Ways to uncover this?

    My hap group is under U106, which is RBY128969. Unfortunately, I am the only one sitting on this particular branch so no clues from FTDNA. Further, in looking at those near me on the big tree, it shows Ireland, Scotland, England, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Finland and Sweden. It made me think of Germanic people of U106 and wondered "when did my family become Irish?" If others have thought about this, please add to this posting. Also if you have ideas about my line as written, please let me know.

    Steve
    Last edited by griffinwhale1; 12-04-2018 at 02:26 AM.

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  3. #2
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    It could honestly have been at any time. Like you my Y-DNA doesn't match the "haplogroup stereotype" of the nation my ancestor came from. However you would be right in your assessment of it probably being "Germanic" at some point. Possibly with the Vikings who settled Dublin and other Irish cities, or with the Normans, or dare I say the English (Plantation Era).

    Were your Griffin ancestors Catholic or Protestant? I've found with my own family research the family's religion can shed some light (this includes Scotland too).
    Y-DNA: I-FTA53697 (Scotland)
    Other Y-lines: R-S1141 (Scotland), R-L21 (Scotland), R-FGC33695 (Ireland), R-U198 (Netherlands), R-U106 (Netherlands)
    mtDNA: pending (Groningen/Friesland, Netherlands)
    mtDNA lines: J1c3

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  5. #3
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    What religion were your ancestors? If they're Catholic that far back, they're unlikely to be anything else beyond that point.

    I have read a few Y-DNA projects of similar English looking names from ROI, and an Irish name is often the end result.
    Last edited by Nqp15hhu; 12-04-2018 at 12:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    What religion were your ancestors? If they're Catholic that far back, they're unlikely to be anything else beyond that point.

    I have read a few Y-DNA projects of similar English looking names from ROI, and an Irish name is often the end result.
    Agreed, however in the case of Protestants it can be a bit different. I have a couple of ancestral lines that are Protestant and then a few generations earlier were Catholic. Though I suppose there were several pressures for this sort of thing to happen.
    Y-DNA: I-FTA53697 (Scotland)
    Other Y-lines: R-S1141 (Scotland), R-L21 (Scotland), R-FGC33695 (Ireland), R-U198 (Netherlands), R-U106 (Netherlands)
    mtDNA: pending (Groningen/Friesland, Netherlands)
    mtDNA lines: J1c3

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    Have you joined the FTDNA Griff* surname project?

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults

    A few references to Ireland and Wales for Griffin there, across the haplogroups.

    No mention of Griff* in my copy of The Origins of Some Anglo-Norman Families by LC Loyd.

    Reference to Cambro-Norman here:

    http://sites.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/irename2.htm

    "The surname Griffin was first found in the province of Munster, where they had been granted lands by Strongbow after the Anglo Norman invasion into Ireland in 1172." :

    https://www.houseofnames.com/griffin-family-crest

    As yet, there is no Griffin in the Guild of One-Name Studies:

    https://one-name.org/

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Agreed, however in the case of Protestants it can be a bit different. I have a couple of ancestral lines that are Protestant and then a few generations earlier were Catholic. Though I suppose there were several pressures for this sort of thing to happen.
    I read a stat on the Irish Origenes site, that said something like ,'If 85% of your surname is Protestant in the 1911 census, it has plantation origins'?. I think this applies to Ulster though.

    It might be a lower statistic for Dublin.

    http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/cq/index.jsp
    Last edited by Nqp15hhu; 12-04-2018 at 12:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    I read a stat on the Irish Origenes site, that said something like ,'If 85% of your surname is Protestant in the 1911 census, it has plantation origins'?. I think this applies to Ulster though.

    It might be a lower statistic for Dublin.

    http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/cq/index.jsp
    I think that is probably accurate. I've found with my own research in Ulster that the majority of Protestant surnames in my tree are just that and not from Catholic roots, however I still have some Catholic ancestors becoming Protestants, however that seems to be restricted to ancestors from ROI and less so in NI.
    Y-DNA: I-FTA53697 (Scotland)
    Other Y-lines: R-S1141 (Scotland), R-L21 (Scotland), R-FGC33695 (Ireland), R-U198 (Netherlands), R-U106 (Netherlands)
    mtDNA: pending (Groningen/Friesland, Netherlands)
    mtDNA lines: J1c3

  13. #8
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    spruithean -My paper trail has all RC documents from baptisms to marriages.Any other thoughts? I'm on YFull and Ytree too - but damn if I'm not sitting on a private hap group because no one has tested the same.

    I went digging last night reading about various Norse-Irish events in and around Dublin. Since many near my branch have Scandanavian flags at YFull, it just started to make me think. My surname aside, just got me wondering. Granted those events were like around 900-1100 AD or so (maybe earlier), but they settled in and around Dublin to Wales to Denmark and back, etc.
    Last edited by griffinwhale1; 12-05-2018 at 01:56 PM.

  14. #9
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    GTC - I am a member of the Griffi* project in FTDNA. In fact I was the first to post to the group. For me, I welcome everyone's thoughts and ideas - but at the end of the day my nature prefers information closer to the science continuum. Which is why I delved into my DNA to help unearth more information than what a paper trail can tell. While my paper trail all leads to RC's in the County of Dublin (Swords, Howth, and Balbriggan) to at least 1776, I want to understand my U106 designation. The terminal provided by FTDNA is R-BY128969, a private group since its just me. Even when I use FTDNA's public tree to filter for Griffin's, none are remotely close to me. That is all well and good since at one point we all share the same surname of blank at some point Since I hit a wall (momentarily), I decided to see if it was possible to determine pre-Irish since U106 is more Germanic culture. With that, I developed two goals as mentioned in my OP: push past 1776 with the help of others and also to see how or when I "became Irish?" A couple have mentioned Normans, Vikings and the like. Norse does make sense since I believe they settled Dublin - its a predominantly Viking settlement.
    Last edited by griffinwhale1; 12-05-2018 at 03:32 AM.

  15. #10
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    Yep - all documents support RC up through my last known ancestor with marriage certs and RC baptism registries and their respective God-parents. When you say an Irish name is the end result -Do you mean like MacGriffin, McGriffin, O'Griffin? or simply my Griffin may be just Irish?

    Has anyone dived into Gresham's website? When I did I spent many wake-less nights pouring through records and searches. I got to a point when the surname Griffin (exact spelling) started to disappear and variant spellings were more prevalent, I can't remember but it may have been mid 1600s to early 1700s. Names like MacGrufan, O'Griffey and O-Grypha and some others. Nothing with a Stephen or a variant though.

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