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Thread: Entry of haplogroups to the Levant

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by notasuckah View Post
    While some people may take issue with this (for semantic reasons I guess), if J1 peoples were originally an Iran-Neolithic-like people, then the J peoples were a central asian-like people genetically (ie. Balochi/Brahui-like--and even more Balochi/Brahui-like than modern day Balochi & Brahui peoples). They were not, autosomally-speaking, what we today would define as Middle Easterners. They occupied the Caucasus, Mesopotamia, Iran, central asia and possibly south-central asia? In the Caucasus, Iran, and central asia, they got out competed by haplogroup R for the access of their own women. In the Middle East, as Agamemnon said, they got lucky and had major success over haplogroup E & T.

    Modern day middle easterners are a mix of indigenous near easterners (anatolia N/Natufian) and a group who were genetically, what we would consider today, central asian (CHG/Iran & possibly Iraq-Neolithic).
    Meh, that's a bit of special pleading. They are a distinct group of Middle Eastern people who have common parent Dzudzuana with the Anatolians that you even mention in a later post. After thousands of years, 2 distrinct groups form, let's call them "Anatolia_Neolithic", and "Iran Neolithic", who then merge together again in the Bronze Age. I'd say they can both confidently be labeled Middle Eastern.

    We need very ancient data from Central Asia to determine who the indigenous are from the region, but my hunch is telling me they will turn out closer to ANE.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 12-13-2018 at 11:02 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

  2. #52
    We can still say that what we today classify as middle easterners does not include gedrosian (central asian)-like people. For this is the only premise & conclusion of my argument; it can only be falsified by judging that it is false, and I don't think I'm wrong on this.
    Last edited by notasuckah; 12-15-2018 at 12:38 AM.

  3. #53
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    This is not related to the Levant, but what is the explanation of E1b1a among people from the Arabian Peninsula? In Saudi Arabian it's 7.6%, 2.6% in Qatar, 3.2% in Yemen, 5.5% in UAE and 0.6% (Bedouin-Kuwaitis). Surely a more logical explanation than Abyssinian war captives?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    This is not related to the Levant, but what is the explanation of E1b1a among people from the Arabian Peninsula? In Saudi Arabian it's 7.6%, 2.6% in Qatar, 3.2% in Yemen, 5.5% in UAE and 0.6% (Bedouin-Kuwaitis). Surely a more logical explanation than Abyssinian war captives?
    Migration beginning in pre-historic times.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by josh w. View Post
    Migration beginning in pre-historic times.
    That's too general. From where, why, when, how..

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    That's too general. From where, why, when, how..
    This is most likely due to the Arab slave trade.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_s...de?wprov=sfla1

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynome View Post
    This is most likely due to the Arab slave trade.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_s...de?wprov=sfla1
    IIRC the Trans-Saharan Slave trade admixture was sex-biased and predominantly female, no?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar II View Post
    IIRC the Trans-Saharan Slave trade admixture was sex-biased and predominantly female, no?
    Yes, in many cases the trade was sex biased. But not all. Many Bantu speaking African men were sold as well, and they were soldiers, bodyguards, and laborers. There were enough of them so that the so called "Zanj (Bantu African) Rebellion" against the Abbasids in the 9th century was a major crisis lasting more than a decade. And the slave trade continued for a millennium after that. So it's very likely the source of E1b1a in the Saudi Arabia, in my opinion.

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  10. #59
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    What about R-V88 and L-M20?
    Last edited by Moe12; 01-09-2019 at 10:08 AM.

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe12 View Post
    What about R-V88 and L-M20?
    R-V88 was mainly a WHG marker. It is unclear how it travelled to Levant and SSA. On the later, the Saharian paleo-rivers could have been the routes of penetration into the heart of Africa, before it became dryer.
    Since we can postulate the presence of R1b V88 in Northern Africa in the Neolithic, it could have followed the coast to Levant. And/or, since it was present in some populations living in the Sahara, some of them could have migrated to the Nile and Levant when living conditions became too difficult with desertification.
    R1b V88 reached Northern Africa either from Iberia (the more likely), or from Italy.
    Last edited by ffoucart; 01-10-2019 at 01:39 AM.

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