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Thread: A serious look at the minor Haplogroups of British Isles Y dna and its implications

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    these Illyrian cohors in Britain are made up of only 3 x dalmatian and 4 x pannonian ones.
    Since the first of these formed after the great illyrian revolt of 9 AD and some say formed circa 90AD . Plus the reallocation of 150,000 illyrian due to the revolt , do you think it was heavily E ydna ? ...........logicically I cannot see Illyrians bringing all the E to Britain as Roman legionaires.

    below is a list of illyrian tribes who fought in the great Illyrian revolt.........80 plus percent are northern illyrian as they are the ones that only had the manpower and the populace.



    The most southern ones of these illyrian tribes do not have the populace or the manpower to be presented of any significant Illyrians
    The ardiaei are the most southern living in coastal Montenegro ( if we refer to modern times )
    There was actually 4, Breucorum were an Illyrian tribe located in Dalmatia as well. There was Illyrian tribes living in what is modern Albania and Macedonia which is South of Montenegro which wouldn’t make the Ardiaei statement correct, though none of Southern Illyrian tribes were stationed at Britain.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    is L17 correct or do you mean L117 ?
    as L117 is a raetic marker or danubian marker

    just curious , as I need to find my facts
    This is a misunderstanding Vettor, L117 is equivalent of saying M70 in the T branch, L117 is not a Danubian/Rhaetian marker, there may have been specific clades of E-V13 that were formed the ethnogensis of Rhaetians, I personally believe E-V13’s expansive ancestor lived somewhere near the Carpathian basin, it would easily explain its population spread to the Balkans and Central Europe. As for the actual Rhaetians they are believed to be related to the Etruscans a non IE population, so the original Rhaetians should not have carried any true European Y dna, but being their proximity to the areas of both Celtic and Italic ethnogensis it would make sense there was some of these markers. The big question could all these more Near Eastern branches found in the ancient Rhaetia be from a late Bronze Age migration or could it be from the auxiliary troops stationed there, because we have one cohort from Syria and another from Cappadocia.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    There was actually 4, Breucorum were an Illyrian tribe located in Dalmatia as well. There was Illyrian tribes living in what is modern Albania and Macedonia which is South of Montenegro which wouldn’t make the Ardiaei statement correct, though none of Southern Illyrian tribes were stationed at Britain.
    Maybe some, depends if ones sees the dardanians as illyrian, thracians or neither

    fact if that the trend of the decuria ( census ) clearly shows less and less Illyrians the further south ( based on the numbers link I provided )

    Salona seems to have been the Dalmatian capital.....it is basically next to modern Split

    Narona is modern Dubrovnik


    my query is that we know E-V13 is in majority in Kosovo and with this trend of Less illyrians as we move south as per the decuria........does it indicate that illyrians had very little E-V13 and so could not populate Britain with this marker or did E-V13 come to Britain via Roman-thracian troops ?
    Last edited by vettor; 12-12-2018 at 07:13 PM.

    European = 99.2%......Central Asian = 0.8% ....Yfull - 1460BC, Jura caves
    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d-P109...CTS6009
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS54+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

    The main negatives = ( M193-, P322-, P327-, Pages11- , L25- , CTS1848- )

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    There was actually 4, Breucorum were an Illyrian tribe located in Dalmatia as well. There was Illyrian tribes living in what is modern Albania and Macedonia which is South of Montenegro which wouldn’t make the Ardiaei statement correct, though none of Southern Illyrian tribes were stationed at Britain.
    Lol, he posted the same thing at the other forum, and this is pretty much what I told him as well, and he downvoted me

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  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Maybe some, depends if ones sees the dardanians as illyrian, thracians or neither

    fact if that the trend of the decuria ( census ) clearly shows less and less Illyrians the further south ( based on the numbers link I provided )

    Salona seems to have been the Dalmatian capital.....it is basically next to modern Split

    Narona is modern Dubrovnik


    my query is that we know E-V13 is in majority in Kosovo and with this trend of Less illyrians as we move south as per the decuria........does it indicate that illyrians had very little E-V13 and so could not populate Britain with this marker or did E-V13 come to Britain via Roman-thracian troops ?
    Well its general historical consensus, even at university when I took a class on the Hellenistic period, my teacher dedicated an entire class on Macedonia pre Alexander and it was known in those days that Macedonia was tri ethnic with Greeks, Thracians and Illyrians. Even many other scholars, there is not much debate on this topic, Illyrian tribes did inhabit both Albania and Macedonia.

    There was less Illyrians further South because there was areas of different ethnic groups (Greeks and Thracians) but they still consisted a majority at least in what is modern Albania, in Macedonia it is another much more complicated scenario as the Illyrians were mostly on West neighboring modern Albania and Serbia.

    Unfortunately in all forums Balkan discussions are too heated and hostile, they always end in political drama. It would be nice to see one day when all Balkan ethnicities working together, it would make research in the area much more friendly and potentially figure out which clades belong to which historical ethnicities.

    As for your query, well I totally disagree, the high number of E-V13 is actually due to small population with rapid expansion, and what we see amongst Albanians is actually a high diversity of E-V13 lineages, so I highly doubt E-V13 was a minor lineage amongst Illyrians, now does that mean all E-V13 was Illyrian no absolutely but they definitely carried some E-V13 as did the Thracians, the real question is how do we differentiate which branches are Illyrian and which are Thracian. The one thing for sure at least in my opinion all British E-V13>Z5017 and Z5018 lineages originate from the Balkans and Danubian/Carpathian region.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    There was actually 4, Breucorum were an Illyrian tribe located in Dalmatia as well. There was Illyrian tribes living in what is modern Albania and Macedonia which is South of Montenegro which wouldn’t make the Ardiaei statement correct, though none of Southern Illyrian tribes were stationed at Britain.
    Breuci lived in northern Bosnia and Croatian Slavonia, and not in Dalmatia. They were Pannonian tribe.
    Narona was not near Dubrovnik, but a little north of it, close to Metković. Dubrovnik is close to Epidaurum
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
    NW Croatian 87.5%
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    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
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  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    Breuci lived in northern Bosnia and Croatian Slavonia, and not in Dalmatia. They were Pannonian tribe.
    Narona was not near Dubrovnik, but a little north of it, close to Metković. Dubrovnik is close to Epidaurum
    My bad, that’s what I saw on the wiki list.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  14. #18
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    And here is map of E Y-DNA in former Yugoslavia:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbw8tadqgzxn3cp/E-YU.png?dl=0
     
    Paper Trail MyHeritage K36 G25 Mod. FTDNA
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    E. Europe 35.7%
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    Scandinavia 21.2%
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    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
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    Ukrainian 3.01
    East Europe 99%
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  16. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph2ter View Post
    And here is map of E Y-DNA in former Yugoslavia:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbw8tadqgzxn3cp/E-YU.png?dl=0
    Thanks for the map ph2ter, it would be nice to know see if we can get subclade details as well, to see which branches are prevalent in certain areas. Serbia seems to have a high amount of E-V13 as well and there is a hot spot around Bosnia and it trickles into Croatia, this is actually a nice validation of E-V13 being prevalent amongst the historical Illyrians. Ancient Moesia was also multi ethnic between Illyrians and Daco-Thracians, so NGS testing from Serbia will be very insightful.
    Last edited by Principe; 12-12-2018 at 10:47 PM.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

    My Maternal Y: R1b-U152>Z36>Y156527

    Other Y lines: 3x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J2a-S25258>SK1336, 5x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: E-V13>A7135, 6x Great Grandfather on Maternal side: J1-Z2331>L829

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  18. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Thanks for the map ph2ter, it would be nice to know see if we can get subclade details as well, to see which branches are prevalent in certain areas. Serbia seems to have a high amount of E-V13 as well and there is a hot spot around Bosnia and it trickles into Croatia, this is actually a nice validation of E-V13 being prevalent amongst the historical Illyrians. Ancient Moesia was also multi ethnic between Illyrians and Daco-Thracians, so NGS testing from Serbia will be very insightful.
    Clades are unknown.

    J:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/tcfnrvoqg3x78rd/xj.png?dl=0

    R1b:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/6j1yc6se5toj9yy/xr1b.png?dl=0
     
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    Scandinavia 21.2%
    Baltic 8.7%
    Grenzmark 0.94
    Czechs 0.93,
    Hungary 0.91
    Volhyn 0.91,
    C. Rusyns 0.91
    Slovenia 0.91
    Czech 1.79
    Hungarian 2.02
    Slovenian 2.07
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    Ukrainian 3.01
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