O-M117 research collaboration

[Erik_Maher]

Haplogroup O-M117 is relatively common in East and Southeast Asia, especially among Sino-Tibetan populations. The key identifying STR feature is 388=10.

The O-M117 SNP is estimated to be about 19,000 years old. (See paper, "Human Migration through Bottlenecks from Southeast Asia into East Asia during Last Glacial Maximum Revealed by Y Chromosomes".) This became apparent to me in the wide genetic distance between two O-M117 members of my extended family, whose 111-marker results came in over the weekend:

f288248, surname Martel, M133+ (~ M117)
12 24 15 10 13-18 11 10 12 12 14 28 19 9-9 11 11 24 15 20 34 12-13-14-15 9 11 19-21 15 15 18 18 33-36 11 11
11 9 16-16 8 12 7 8 11 11 12 17-17 14 11 12 12 15 7 13 23 17 13 12 11 15 11 11 12 11
34 15 8 15 12 24 27 20 11 12 12 13 11 9 12 11 12 11 13 30 12 14 22 15 9 10 23 16 21 13 22 17 12 16 25 12 20 21 11 13 18 9 12 11

f288250, surname Enriquez, M133+ (~ M117)
12 24 14 10 14-20 11 10 11 12 14 29 17 9-9 12 11 23 15 20 31 12-13-14-15 9 10 19-21 15 15 17 18 30-36 13 11
11 11 15-15 8 11 7 8 11 11 12 17-17 14 11 12 12 17 7 14 24 17 13 12 11 15 11 11 12 11
32 15 8 15 11 25 27 20 12 12 12 13 11 9 11 11 12 11 12 30 12 13 22 16 9 11 23 16 20 15 22 18 12 15 26 12 20 19 11 13 16 9 13 11

You might not think they were in the same haplogroup at first glance. Both trace direct male line descent to Cambanay, Danao City, Cebu, Philippines.

I ordered Big Y for Mr. Enriquez, for the benefit of science, and my plan is to ask Mr. Martel, sometime next year (when I scrounge up the dinero), if he would grant permission to do full Y sequencing with Full Genomes, to compare against Mr. Enriquez' Big Y and to further advance the science. I'm curious if anyone else in haplogroup O-M117 has ordered any advanced testing, or plans to do so? I am eager to chip in financially, if anyone has the desire but lacks the requisite moolah.

I'm curious about the state of research into haplogroup O in general; this is possibly the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th largest haplogroup after R, considering that about 20% of the world's population is Chinese, with estimates that 50 to 65% of East and SE Asians belong to haplogroup O. The O tree on ISOGG currently looks "sleepy", similar to how the haplogroup R tree looked in, say, 2007, before anyone even knew about L21. I have high hopes for new discoveries in O in the next year.

- E.M.

[rock]

recent paper "Y Chromosomes of 40% Chinese Are Descendants of Three Neolithic Super-grandfathers" estimated M117 5.4 K years,they named Oα for core downstream SNPs of M117.I think 5.4k years is for Oα.and they find M117 samples not belong to Oα.F438 is approximately in Oα1,two M117 in O3 project is F438+.almost half of the M117 they tested are Oα*,they probably will sequence these Oα* for subgroup better define,though the process is very slow.
below is their draft O tree posted on a forum half a year ago.use their F SNP,actual name and position not disclosed.I think the next O tree version will contain all source of new SNPs:F,CTS,etc,there are many branches not overlap.
O-M175, P191, P188
.O1-F75
..O1a-M119
...O1a1
....O1a1a-P203/M307
.....O1a1a1
......O1a1a1a
.......O1a1a1a1
.....O1a1a2
....O1a1b-M50, M110
..O1b-M268, P31
...O1b1
....O1b1a-PK4
.....O1b1a1-M95
......O1b1a1a
.......O1b1a1a1-M88
........O1b1a1a1a
.........O1b1a1a1a1
..........O1b1a1a1a1a
......O1b1a1b
.....O1b1a2
......O1b1a2a
.......O1b1a2a1-N9
....O1b1b
.....O1b1b1
......O1b1b1a
.....O1b1b2
...O1b2-M176/SRY465
....O1b2a-47z
....O1b2b-L682
.O2-M122, P198
..O2a-M324, P200, P199, P197
...O2a1-KL1/L465, KL2/L467, L127
....O2a1a
.....O2a1a1
......O2a1a1a
.......O2a1a1a1-M121
......O2a1a1b
.......O2a1a1b1
.....O2a1a2
....O2a1b-002611, KL3
.....O2a1b1
......Oγ-F11, F425/Page69
.......Oγ1
........Oγ1a
.........Oγ1a1
..........Oγ1a1a
...........Oγ1a1a1
............Oγ1a1a1a
.......Oγ2
.......Oγ3
.......Oγ4
........Oγ4a
.......Oγ5
.....O2a1b2
......O2a1b2a-F238
.......O2a1b2a1
........O2a1b2a1a
......O2a1b2b
...O2a2-P201
....O2a2a-M188
.....O2a2a1
......O2a2a1a-M159
......O2a2a1b-M7
.......O2a2a1b1-M209
........O2a2a1b1a
.........O2a2a1b1a1-M113
.....O2a2a2
......O2a2a2a
....O2a2b-P164
.....O2a2b1-M134
......O2a2b1a-M117
.......O2a2b1a1
........O2a2b1a1a
.........O2a2b1a1a1
..........Oα
...........Oα1
............Oα1a
.............Oα1a1
............Oα1b
.............Oα1b1
..............Oα1b1a
...........Oα2
...........Oα3
...........Oα4
......O2a2b1b-F444
.......O2a2b1b1
........Oβ
.........Oβ1
..........Oβ1a
.........Oβ2
..........Oβ2a
.........Oβ3
..........Oβ3a
...........Oβ3a1
.........Oβ4
.........Oβ5
.......O2a2b1b2
.....O2a2b2-N6
......O2a2b2a-N7
.......O2a2b2a1
......O2a2b2b
.......O2a2b2b1
..O2b
...O2b1
....O2b1a

[Erik_Maher]

Thank you, Rock, for this updated information. I do have one question: I looked at the diagram in the scientific paper that you mentioned, and the 5.4 is pointing towards the right end of the line entitled M117. The left side of that line corresponds more with what looks like 15,000 ybp, and there is a note below the image, saying that the number in red is the coalescence time. I could be wrong, but I think 5.4K ybp refers to the coalescence time of O-M117, not the first appearance of the SNP in haplogroup O?

[rock]

M117 should be a little older than 5.4k y.Another M117 22754 ordered big Y,he is F438+

[rock]

288248 I saw his SNP is F3599+, F1870+. this branch likely related to Fujian Minnan or neighbouring area. You can compare with 1000 Genomes sample's SNPs

F3599+, F1870+
HG02122 KHV
HG01852 KHV
HGDP00822 Han

F3599+, F1870-
HGDP00821 Han
NA18623 CHB
HG00592 CHS

I find closest STR match is
2 steps at 23 STRs
Sq0173 Singapore [Han] difference at DYS385a and DYS458
2 steps at 26 STRs
24 Shanghai Han difference at DYS390 and DYS458 (PP23+DYS388, DYS449, DYS460)

288250's closest match at 23 STRs is 5 steps
Sq0134 Singapore [Han] difference at DYS389b, DYS456, DYS576, DYS481(2 steps)
Have you analyse the big Y result,what branch is 288250?

[fjnj]

There are 5 1kgenome samples under F438. Four are positive for Y17728, one is negative. So Y17728 breaks the F438 into 2 subgroups. The four samples under Y17728 then break into 3 groups: CTS1304/F318; F1754; and CTS12122.

[william0509]

I've got my result of Big Y last week, and confirmed as M117+,F8+, CTS5063+, and two of my friends are testing Big Y who are under the subclade of CTS1304 . Hopefully, we can see better picture of O2-M117.

[Huntergatherer1066]

I've got my result of Big Y last week, and confirmed as M117+,F8+, CTS5063+, and two of my friends are testing Big Y who are under the subclade of CTS1304 . Hopefully, we can see better picture of O2-M117.

That's good to hear. Out of curiosity, how many novel variants are you showing in the BigY results page at FTDNA?

[william0509]

It says 267 entries (filtered from 274 total entries).

[fjnj]

Some of these snps are known snps, and the list used by FTDNA is not up to date. There are probably also wrong calls because they mixed up the ancestral vs the derived allele. If you plan to have the BAM file analyzed by Y-Full or someone else, you will have better ideas about exactly which are really useful novel snps.