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Thread: New paper on ancient Italy with samples from North to South discussion!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    I wouldn't call the Iron Age recent, but yes, it's obviously post-Neolithic at this point.
    It's from after 1900 BC and obviously from Semitic and Berber speaking migrants I mean but yes, you are correct.

    Is the paper also suggesting Anatolian input in Balkans and Greece was overridden by Slavic? I've quoted something suggesting yes above.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Some of the Anatolia Bronze Age samples plot actually *in* modern South Italy. South Italians today are closer to some West Asians than to some North Italians as you see on the PCA.
    They are actually closer to North Italians than to Anatolia_Chl, Anatolia_BA and West Asians.
    Last edited by Ajeje Brazorf; 12-14-2018 at 02:33 PM.

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  5. #13
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    the south to north gradient of Anatolia BA creates an Italian cline, admixture within Italy is responsible for this phenomena, what kind of historical interactions between south and north that might have created this?

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    This isn’t really shocking news, many us already knew this it was obvious from Uniparentals and Autosomal dna, too bad no new samples tested, but adna papers are coming soon, hopefully this puts an end to no post-Neolithic group.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    They are actually closer to North Italians than to Anatolia_Chl, Anatolia_BA and West Asians.
    Doesn't look like it compared to the northernmost Italians.

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  11. #16
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    Yeah at first I believed this was about new aDNA from Italy, it merely covers what all of us have been seeing and saying. Again, the papers are lagging behind with conclusion that have been discussed here before.

    I would move that to autosomal section in any case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronHorse View Post
    the south to north gradient of Anatolia BA creates an Italian cline, admixture within Italy is responsible for this phenomena, what kind of historical interactions between south and north that might have created this?
    That’s still somewhat a mystery, in Sicily there is the Castelluccio Culture which should be the first group to carry ABA, CHG and Iran Neo, in the South perhaps there was sub structure differences during the Apennine Culture phase, Coppa Nevigata is a good contender for a site, of course only adna will solve this. For implications I think it’s likely now (like I said in the past) that groups like the Oenotrians were non IE peoples.
    Last edited by Principe; 12-14-2018 at 02:54 PM.
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    Interesting note as well Molise is shown as being 50/50 Central and Southern Italian group and Abruzzo is shown to be 60/40 South and Central. Campania and Puglia look to be structurally the same with Basilicata being 75% similar and the other quarter being more Sicilian and Calabrese like.
    My Y Line: J2a-L210>Z489>Z482>Y15222

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    Quote Originally Posted by Principe View Post
    Interesting note as well Molise is shown as being 50/50 Central and Southern Italian group and Abruzzo is shown to be 60/40 South and Central. Campania and Puglia look to be structurally the same with Basilicata being 75% similar and the other quarter being more Sicilian and Calabrese like.
    Do you know where the Sicilian and Calabrian samples are from?

    Some south Italians plot near to a few dots on the PCA I assume to be Cypriots.

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  19. #20
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    I'm reading through the paper right now, but I keep hearing that these are not new Italian samples. How could they not be new? I haven't seen any YDNA from any ancient Italians in southern Italy. There might have been a Sicilian Beaker...but may be misremembering.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
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    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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