Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Matches appearing closer due to multiple ancestors in common

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    890
    Sex
    Location
    England
    Ethnicity
    Mixed
    Nationality
    British

    United Kingdom Netherlands Mauritius Madagascar India China Qing Dynasty

    Matches appearing closer due to multiple ancestors in common

    Anyone else getting relatives that come up closer than they are on the DNA services because they are related more than one way? I'd been plugging away trying to figure out how these 4th cousin matches were related and was working some more on my tree on some unfinished branches and found that actually they are farther away but match us several times over. We have surnames that repeat throughout the tree like Harris, Chubb, Hallett, Salisbury, Wakely etc. I guess it was kind of inevitable considering my mother's maternal side are all from within a small area on the Dorset, Somerset, Devon border area and have been for hundreds of years. I'd kind of given up trying to find out how we matched but slowly getting there as I fill out the offshoots of various branches
    Ethnogene: 51.4% NW European, 21.6% W European, 10.1% Southeastern African, 9.5% Southeast Asian, 4.4% South Asian, 2% Scandinavian, 1% East African
    Papertrail @ 2xggrandparents: 37.5% London, 25% Dorset, 25% Mauritius, 6.25% Netherlands, 6.25% Hampshire

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JFWinstone For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  Judith (12-21-2018),  rms2 (12-21-2018),  Webb (12-21-2018)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    755
    Sex
    Location
    Waterville, ME
    Ethnicity
    Great Migration Colonists
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U106 (S10415)
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2g (FMS)
    Y-DNA (M)
    I1a-P109 (23andMe)
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b3 (23andMe)

    United States Gadsden England Scotland Ireland Wales
    I oftentimes joke that I don't have a family tree, but a family pole. (To be accurate, it isn't so much a family pole, but a family web.) My family comes from the Western Mountain area of Maine (Franklin & Somerset Counties) and I am descended mostly from Great Migration Colonists to New England (1620-1650). I have been very fortunate in being able to trace the majority of my ancestry to the immigrant ancestors.

    For these reasons, not only are my parents distantly related to each other (in MANY ways), all four of my grandparents are distantly related to each other. In addition, all eight of my great-grandparents are distantly related to each other and to date I have been able to find distant (and not so distant) relationships between 15 of my 16 great-great grandparents! Another indication of my Colonial American roots comes from the fact I can trace Mayflower lines of descent down to seven of my eight great-grandparents.

    This endogamy is especially true on my mother's side of the family. Her mother and her paternal grandfather were both born in a small, isolated town (Embden, Maine). This town was settled shortly before 1800 with no real influx of new families until relatively cheap cars (and roadways) became available after the Great Depression. Given their relative isolation (and lack of any travel other than walking, horseback or boating on small rivers & streams), the families had little choice but to marry within this community for almost 150 years. (How far could would you want to travel to find a mate given these modes of travel?)

    As a result of this isolation, my mother happens to descend from two daughters of a first cousin marriage. She also descends from other relatives of the bride and groom and has seven lines of descent from a couple married in 1768 (as well as other lines of descent from more distant ancestors). My mother's parents have a seemingly infinite number of cousin relationships to each other with the closest being fourth cousins (from two of the daughters of a first cousin marriage).

    Given all of the above, I actually expect most of the DNA matches going back to families from Embden, Maine to have multiple common lines, so determining which ancestral lines contributed the DNA would likely be impossible. I have seen cases where individuals predicted to be fourth cousins are almost certainly 7th-8th cousins or so, with multiple common ancestries.
    Gedmatch DNA: M032736 Gedcom: 6613110.
    Gedmatch Genesis: WH4547538
    co-administrator: Y-DNA R-U106 Haplogroup Project

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wing Genealogist For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  FionnSneachta (12-21-2018),  JFWinstone (12-21-2018),  Webb (12-21-2018)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    755
    Sex
    Location
    Waterville, ME
    Ethnicity
    Great Migration Colonists
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U106 (S10415)
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2g (FMS)
    Y-DNA (M)
    I1a-P109 (23andMe)
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b3 (23andMe)

    United States Gadsden England Scotland Ireland Wales
    I have a somewhat similar circumstance on my paternal side as well. My paternal grandmother is descended from third cousins, and they tended to have large families (most with ten or more kids). I have far more DNA matches from this side of my family than I do with the other sides of my family. In many of these cases, my relatives had even more lines of ancestry from related families than myself, so once again, the inferred relationship (due to the amount of shared DNA) is oftentimes overstated.
    Gedmatch DNA: M032736 Gedcom: 6613110.
    Gedmatch Genesis: WH4547538
    co-administrator: Y-DNA R-U106 Haplogroup Project

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wing Genealogist For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  FionnSneachta (12-21-2018),  JFWinstone (12-21-2018),  Webb (12-21-2018)

  7. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,607
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Nationality
    Canadian

    Canada Netherlands United Kingdom Cornwall Ireland France
    Yep, I get this with matches from my maternal grandfather's side, in this case it is due to pedigree collapse and a rather small locale in the country of origin.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to spruithean For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  FionnSneachta (12-21-2018),  Webb (12-21-2018)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,924
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>L2>Z49>Z142>
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    On some branches my family tree is more like a family vine...very intertwined. A positive of this situation is it cuts down on the number of branches you have to research.

    A remember another researcher thought my family tree was wrong, as a couple had the same grandparents...I explained that that was indeed the case.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 12-22-2018 at 12:37 AM.
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  FionnSneachta (12-21-2018)

  11. #6
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    2,013
    Sex
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Ethnicity
    mixed European
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    Dad: R1b/L21/DF63
    mtDNA (M)
    K2b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-M269
    mtDNA (P)
    K2b1a1a

    United States of America England Wales Sweden Germany
    Yes, on one line in particular.

    Also, although my parents are not related, their families lived in a lot of the same places over the years, and so I do have some matches who are related on both sides.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to msmarjoribanks For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  FionnSneachta (12-21-2018)

  13. #7
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,302
    Sex
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ethnicity
    100% European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27>Z195>FGC23196
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    William D Craig m. Elizabeth Nickell
    Daughter: Martha Craig m. Ambrose J. Jones Son: see below
    Thomas B. Newton m. Nancy Agnes Craig(sister of above William Craig)
    Daughter: Martha P. Newton m. (son from above) Ambrose J. Jones Jr.
    son: Uriah Jones M. Matilda Jane Nickell (the above Elizabeth Nickell is her great aunt)

    I have counted about 28 times a Nickell married a Jones on my tree. They were all from Augusta, Virginia then moved to Morgan County, Kentucky before ending up in Oklahoma.

    My grandparents are first cousins on the Jones side, of course. They both descend from Uriah Jones and Matilda Jane Nickell.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Webb For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  FionnSneachta (12-21-2018),  msmarjoribanks (12-21-2018)

  15. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,607
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Nationality
    Canadian

    Canada Netherlands United Kingdom Cornwall Ireland France
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    On some branches my family tree is more like a family vine...very intertwined. A positive of this situation is it cuts down on the number of branches you have to research.

    A remember another researcher thought my family tree wrong, as a couple had the same grandparents...I explained that that was indeed the case.
    I joke about my maternal grandfather's family tree being a straight line, but it is indeed a vine with a lot of twists. The tree always seems to intersect at various points with various ancestors also being uncles and aunts to my other ancestors. It certainly cuts down on lines to research, but gets quite frustrating when you have to merge people in a family tree program.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to spruithean For This Useful Post:

     JFWinstone (12-21-2018),  MitchellSince1893 (12-22-2018)

  17. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,267
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Irish
    Nationality
    Irish
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-FGC6545-FT122506
    mtDNA (M)
    H6a1b2h
    mtDNA (P)
    H27e

    Ireland Ireland Connacht
    I have a few matches who are connected on both my mum and dad's side of the family but it doesn't really make the matches appear any closer to me. I don't even match two of them who should be 3rd cousins once removed on just my mum's side. They're descended from my 4x great grandparents on my dad's side and 3x great grandparents on my mum's side so maybe by that stage, I just didn't inherit much from my dad. Even for my grandaunt who has the same 2x great grandparents twice, her closest match known to descend from this couple comes up as a 3rd to 4th cousin match sharing 176 cM when they're actually 2nd cousins once removed. It's not way off but it just makes them look like ordinary 2nd cousins once removed rather than the match being connected through two different ways.

    Despite some overlap going on, they haven't actually made any of my matches appear closer than they actually are. I also had the fun of explaining to someone why I have the same 4x great grandparents twice in my tree. At least it's another line covered though since I don't know most of my 4x great grandparents.
    Ancestry: Ireland (Paper trail ≅ 81.25% Roscommon, 12.5% Galway, 6.25% Mayo)
    Y-DNA (P) ancestor (Y): Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (Uí Maine)
    mtDNA (P) ancestor: Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon
    mtDNA (M) ancestor: McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    mtDNA Great grandfather: Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)
    Y-DNA 2x great grandfather: Higgins b. c1816 in Co. Roscommon (R-DF109)
    Y-DNA 3x great grandfather: Fleming b. c1829 in Co. Roscommon (R-Z23534)

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FionnSneachta For This Useful Post:

     Calamus (12-21-2018),  msmarjoribanks (12-24-2018)

  19. #10
    Registered Users
    Posts
    32
    Sex
    Location
    Wales
    Ethnicity
    Northwestern European
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-U198
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    England Ireland Wales Scotland France Germany Palatinate
    I have this through my maternal grandfather. Some of my mother's estimated "4th cousins" on Ancestry are actually 6th-8th cousins on multiple lines, with some matches in the 50cM range whose closest relationship is 6th cousin on one line, 7th cousin on another, 8th on 2 more, and some in the 20cM range whose closest relationship is 7C-8C (but again on as many as 12 different common lines of descent from shared 17th century ancestors).

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to CJH For This Useful Post:

     JFWinstone (12-23-2018)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-21-2019, 08:02 AM
  2. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-29-2019, 10:07 PM
  3. Finding matches of Common Surnames
    By Nqp15hhu in forum General
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-31-2019, 02:27 PM
  4. My mother's ftdna common maternal matches
    By lifeisdandy in forum T
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-13-2017, 07:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •