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Thread: South Slav but Germanic haplogroup?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tz85 View Post
    You realize that your Ydna has literally nothing to do with Autosomal dna, and "Bosnia" didn't even exist at the time of your haplogroup?
    I am well aware that neither Bosnia nor Montenegro existed back then, but how else was I supposed to say where I am from and currently living?
    I also know that Autosomal dna isn't connected to Ydna, but if I had a haplogroup mainly found in North Scandinavia and my Autosomal dna had said I was mostly matching populations in Finland, Russia, Sweden, Estonia. Then you could kind of use that to correlate why I might have that haplogroup. Just an example ofcourse.

    My suprise was that I was born in Bosnia, and my ancestry is all from modern day Bosnia and Montenegro for at least 250 years from what I could track. So I obviously expected a haplogroup that the majority of people in the Balkans had. When I got this haplogroup and looked it up, people where talking about how it was mainly "Germanic" and mainly found in North Western Europe.

    Also what do you mean with Bosnia don't exist at the time of this haplogroup? Both the country and the haplogroup exist right now no?

  2. #32
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    Kazakhstan
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    R1-Z156>DF98>S22069

    Uzbekistan Russia Tatarstan Kazakhstan Tajikistan
    Kazakh man only predictor info-z304. Mordovians and one tatar man with snp z304+ But isnt famous subclades df98and df96

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  4. #33
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    R1-Z156>DF98>S22069

    Uzbekistan Russia Tatarstan Kazakhstan Tajikistan
    Quote Originally Posted by Bollox79 View Post
    What branches of Z156 are the Mordovians and that Kazakh? Just curious as to what part of Z156 they belong.

    Cheers,
    Charlie
    Kazakh man only predictor info z304.Mordovians and one tatar man have snp z304 plus but it isnt famous df98and df96

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  6. #34
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    DF98 & DF96 are two major subclades of Z304. Almost everyone who is Z304+ would either fall under either DF98 or DF96.

    Technically, DF96 is a subclade of an Indel (BY12480) and BY12480 is a direct subclade of Z304. However, almost everyone who is BY12480+ is DF96+

    FTDNA does a good job displaying their Haplotree at: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/R


    Edit: Unfortunately, many test results don't try to go down below Z304 (if they even drill down that far).
    Last edited by Wing Genealogist; 01-03-2019 at 12:10 AM.
    Gedmatch DNA: M032736 Gedcom: 6613110.
    Gedmatch Genesis: WH4547538
    co-administrator: Y-DNA R-U106 Haplogroup Project

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    Kazakh man only predictor info z304.Mordovians and one tatar man have snp z304 plus but it isnt famous df98and df96
    Scat,

    Thank you very much for the response! It is interesting that they are all Z304+ (or predicted to be Z304+) and as Wing Genealogist says almost all Z304+ men are usually DF96 or DF98 positive - but there are small sub groups under Z304 that also DF98- and DF96-.

    Currently I think that at earlier levels (Z304 and sub groups - including DF98) our group was moving around in the Bronze Age with the Unetice culture as we already have a Unetice mature male burial that is DF98+ and additionally S1911 and S1894/S1900 at Jinonice near Prague (I am also positive for those SNPs). My question is (and I hope it will be answered by aDNA within the next year or two...) is did it move and then stay in the area and then "became" Germanic (as in Wettin's case - but could be another culture or group also) or did it move North and then came back with Germanic tribesman and moved around a bit more in the Germanic migration period? The reason I wonder that is because we have the DF98 relationship with the House of Wettin (considered a Saxon noble family, but their paternal origin is still in debate - this is from research on that topic translated by me from German: "On the other hand, the assumptions prove that the WETTINER were descended from a group of relatives whose head name was Burkhard, and at the same time were in contact with the Harzgraves through the "agnatus" Rikdag. However, only the third approach succeeds in convincingly combining these two insights and the message of the Saxon mirror. Therefore, it is most probable that the WETTINER are paternal derived from the Swabian BURKHARDINGERN and maternal from the Resident Count of Harz [However, Thietmar von Merseburg explicitly described the Margrave Rikdag as "agnatus" Dedos I. Wenskus decides on a cognitive connection.]."

    So you have the Wettin connection and we have already found Z305 (just above Z304) at Altenerding (sample AED 106) and also DF96 (sample ALH 1) in early Bavarian (Baiuvarii) samples from near Munich dated to about 450-500 AD. I think the fact that DF96 and Z305 shows up at all in Germanic remains seems to indicate that Z305 - Z304 and DF96... possibly played a part in the Germanic migrations and possibly might be true for DF98? In the small subgroups under Z304 (but that are not DF96 or DF98) there is more than one Polish sample - even one family who is nobility from 1398 Wielkopolska.

    I think we need many more samples from Germany and further East (both ancient and modern) to figure this all out - as there are some interesting things East of Germany - my newest match in my small group of FGC14840 has paternal history from Prussia and possibly Poland... he and I are the guys that are FGC14840+ and negative for the SNP that the others under us share... so hopefully we share more of my variants as he has agreed to do more testing!

    That brings my attention even more to the East - as my little group of FGC14840 - when looking at European members (and not American descendants of probable Colonial families of Isles descent) - are all around the Baltic - two Swedes and a Polish/Prussian. If we remember the paper with both "Roman Gladiators" 3drif-16 (who was DF96) and my distant kinsman 6drif-3 (see the shared SNPs in my signature!)... they had autosomal connection to the Baltic - more than the other "Gladiators" tested so I think it is possible their male line could have come from the area of modern day Poland or a population that moved through there (Goths?). Still that is all based on a very small number of samples so it may change... depends on what we find in the future - but there seems to be a tentative connection ;-)!

    Additionally from my side of the pond - statistically my male line from Pennsylvania is very likely to have been German (considering the Weaver family trees I can find at ancestry from my area of PA) - Hessen or Prussian/Lower Saxony... I have one in mind who shows up in my autosomal cousins from near my area of Pennsylvania and their immigrant ancestor was a Michael Weber (Weaver) from Wittenburg, Hannover, Niedersachsen, Germany. One of his sons was a Johann Adam Weber (Weaver) born about the right time for my 4th GGF Adam Weaver - but in order to prove that I would need to have their Y-DNA tested to be sure! I am currently waiting on a DNA test from ancestry (I already did the FTDNA family finder) and also have one of my male line Weaver cousins from my father's generation doing the same so we can see what family DNA circles we share and I will look for that Weaver family and others that haven't tested their Y-DNA yet. Some have, but I they are not DF98+... though more than one are U106+.

    If you are in contact with these samples, please ask them to check out either the FTDNA U106 DNA project (if they tested under FTDNA they can join) and even if they didn't test at FTDNA they can check out the U106 yahoo group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b1c_U106-S21/info

    As I said - we really need more samples from the continent and also from the East - there is currently too much of an Isles bias in the testing data that I think skews the data... I think we are going to find DF96 and DF98 where we didn't quite expect it when we get enough samples!

    Cheers,
    Charlie

    Edit: Additionally Z156 itself (before Z305/Z306 and Z304) could have been an early movement West as we have sub groups of Z156 that are not Z305/306 or Z304 and they are more common in the West and the Isles - Scots and Irish... there is that to consider. Really we need Late Bronze Age and Iron Age samples from different places to see what haplogroups were there or not there!
    Last edited by Bollox79; 01-03-2019 at 03:29 AM.
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Adam Weaver born 1785 in Pennsylvania (most likely German) - Sergeant, US 17th Inf, War of 1812: R1b-U106-Z381-Z156-Z305/306/307-Z304-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004/FGC14818/FGC14823-FGC14816/FGC14817 shared with 6drif-3!

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget Dana b. 1843 Ireland - T2b2b - Pagan Migrant Icelander SSG-A3 (grave 4?) - Sķlastašir in Eyjafjaršarsżsla, North Iceland is T2b2b. Relative of King Bela III of Hungary (his Y-DNA and autosomal kinsman buried near him had mtDNA T2b2b1)!

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  10. #36
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    R1-Z156>DF98>S22069

    Uzbekistan Russia Tatarstan Kazakhstan Tajikistan
    sorry guys, i m wrong. I belive that it isnt df98 or df96.but i saw not correctly. Its isnt df98, but of course it is df96 because it is by12480. It is info about tatar man. About kazakh it is only predictor info. I will find info about mordovian soon, i hope

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scat View Post
    sorry guys, i m wrong. I belive that it isnt df98 or df96.but i saw not correctly. Its isnt df98, but of course it is df96 because it is by12480. It is info about tatar man. About kazakh it is only predictor info. I will find info about mordovian soon, i hope
    DF96 is a subclade of BY12480. However, not everyone who is BY12480+ is DF96+. There are a small number of other clades below BY12480 besides DF96.

    DF96 was found before BY12480 and even today DF96 is much better known than it's parent (BY12480). If the Tartar man is called BY12480 but not called DF96 then it is more likely he would be DF96-. To be technical, depending on the test(s) this individual had taken, it is entirely possible he either never tested for DF96, or he did not receive ANY result for DF96.
    Gedmatch DNA: M032736 Gedcom: 6613110.
    Gedmatch Genesis: WH4547538
    co-administrator: Y-DNA R-U106 Haplogroup Project

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  14. #38
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    my dad is BY12480 but he is U106... he is negative DF96
    Last edited by Wheal; 08-27-2019 at 04:05 PM. Reason: addition
    Paternal Y=U106>Z381>L48>Z9>Z30>Z349>Z2>S15510>Y7378 mt=H11a
    Maternal mt=H5a1b

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