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Thread: L448 Origin in Norway

  1. #1
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    L448 Origin in Norway

    Where would you say that the origin of L448 in Norway would have come from?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ÁNLEIFR View Post
    Where would you say that the origin of L448 in Norway would have come from?
    I have once provided a hypothetical scenario for the origin of Z284, and most of it applies for its all major subclades (including L448), as well:
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...=8038#post8038

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  4. #3
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    Do you or anyone else know if the Goths were R1a?

  5. #4
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    I have just noticed that there is something wrong with my link provided above, so here is the correct one:
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...=8038#post8038

    Quote Originally Posted by ÁNLEIFR View Post
    Do you or anyone else know if the Goths were R1a?
    I’m afraid nobody knows it for sure, as we don’t have any aDNA data for any archaeological culture suspected of being associated with the Goths. Thus, we can only make some educated guesses based on available data.

    When assuming that the “original Goths” were some Scandinavian (“Swedish”?) newcomers to the Lower Vistula region, which is a view that is still strongly contested by at least some members of this forum, I would consider it rather unlikely that there were (m)any R1a members among them, which is of course related to my own hypothesis regarding the R1a-Z284 presence in Scandinavia (see the above link). Instead, I would rather expect that those Early Goths represented mostly haplogroup I1, although some contribution of R1b and a minor presence of N1c and R1a-Z284 cannot be excluded.

    It is also quite likely that once those Scandinavians settled in today’s Northern Poland, they have assimilated some local people, including also those from haplpgroup R1a, and more specifically from the relatively large “Baltic” clade R1a-YP237 (though I would exclude the East Pomeranian subclade R1a-L365 that seems to represent some more recent newcomers to the Pomerania region, at least IMO).

    After the Goths expanded south-east and founded their “legendary” Oium kigdom in today’s Ukraine, they could have subdued (and at least partially assimilated) some more R1a people, and this could have included, for example, some members of R1a-CTS8816, mostly some rare sublineages of R1a-Y2902 and R1a-L1280 that are now occasionally seen in Southern Europe, including Spain and Italy (but also in Greece and in the entire Balkan peninsula, where it is, however, much more difficult to distinguish between the putative remnants of the Goths and the much more numerous descendants of the slightly more recent Slavic “invaders”).
    Last edited by Michał; 07-13-2014 at 04:35 PM.

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    I carry R1a-YP237* and my paternal ancestry is from Spain.
    Last edited by Car; 12-27-2019 at 07:30 AM.

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