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Thread: South Asian genetics misconceptions

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    I actually found that quite bizarre. Amritsar is in Punjab so he was using Punjabis as the prototype for looking Indian (which is fine if he believes that).

    On a separate note, Amritsar is a metropolitan/tourist city full of non Punjabis and not very representative of your average rural Punjabi. Even then, Punjabis can exhibit massive phenotype diversity. Often within the same family.
    It might be hard for people to understand but what you are describing is exactly how a sexually reproducing population should vary. Or else we all shall be clones and dead on the first pathogenic wave.

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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Ok this part I cant agree with I live in a place with many Punjabis and Im constantly baffled by how Indian most of them actually look. The number of posts we see on the internet from north indians being mistaken as a different race is most likely due to people not being familiar with indian faces as a whole, and less to do with an inherent departure in phenotypes.
    If I can ask, where do you live?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    I actually found that quite bizarre. Amritsar is in Punjab so he seemed to be using Punjabis as the prototype for looking Indian (which is fine if he believes that). However, India is insanely diverse so there can be pretty significant differences between different ethnic groups. Often, you’ll even find extreme variation at the intra-ethnic level.

    On a separate note, Amritsar is a semi urban metro/tourist city full of non Punjabis and not very representative of your average rural Punjabi. Even then, Punjabis can exhibit massive phenotype diversity. Often within the same family.
    Yeah it's not that surprising for Punjabis since they genetically vary. However what you said is true for all ethnic groups. Even mine. The diversity, even within the same family sometimes, is mind boggling.
    Last edited by Azbuzz; 06-12-2021 at 05:15 PM.

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  7. #204
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    Much diversity in our family too. Some look very fair and some very dark. Different heights too.

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  9. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azbuzz View Post
    Yeah it's not that surprising for Punjabis since they genetically vary. However what you said is true for all ethnic groups. Even mine. The diversity, even within the same family sometimes, is mind boggling.
    Yes, it is true to some extent for all ethnic groups but Punjabis number around 100 million and are probably one of the least uniform ethnic groups genetically on the planet. It can be so extreme that you would be hard pressed to convince some people that the extremes are actually from the same ethnicity (the intra group diversity is so large that they can be genetically closer to unrelated populations living 1-2k+ kilometers away from the Punjab in comparison to someone from the same village).
    Last edited by Sapporo; 06-12-2021 at 09:27 PM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

  10. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    I’m saying I found it bizarre? Delhi and Mumbai are much better choices since they are the largest hubs of India with people from every corner of the subcontinent. You singled out Amritsar as if you were intimately familiar with it (at least that’s how I perceived it). Apparently, because you know a few people from there.

    Also, it’s probably worth noting Punjabis span the entire genetic cline of South Asia (which I’m sure you’re already aware is quite large due to the nature of the region’s divergent ancestries). From its northwestern fringes to deep into the Deccan Plateau. See the G25 PCA's below. This applies to phenotype to some extent too (though not in a consistent manner).



    Look Im not denying that there may be large genetic gaps between Indian populations particularly due to the caste system. I was just piggybacking off the other guy's observation that the phenotypic uniformity is greater than one would expect looking at the genetic diversity. I was just taking it one step further to include so called "North Indians" because to someone who is familiar with them, they dont look much different to other Indians.
    Last edited by Cynic; 06-12-2021 at 09:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Look Im not denying that there may be large genetic gaps between Indian populations particularly due to the caste system. I was just piggybacking off the other guy's observation that the phenotypic uniformity is greater than one would expect looking at the genetic diversity. I was just taking it one step further to include so called "North Indians" because to someone who is familiar with them, they dont look much different to other Indians.
    I'm not even talking about Indians or South Asians as a whole. Just intra-Punjabi genetic variation. Some Punjabis can be genetically closer to Iranian Baloch or Southeastern Iranians (Sistanis as an example) than they are to "lower castes" from their own village. It may not have a one to one correlation to phenotype but it certainly does play some role. Also, even North Indian is a massively broad term. For example, a UP Kshatriya is genetically much closer to a Southern Brahmin than they are to a West UP Jaat or Punjabi Khatri. An UP Chamar can be closer to a South Indian dalit than they are to a Brahmin from their own region.
    Last edited by Sapporo; 06-12-2021 at 09:50 PM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    I'm not even talking about Indians or South Asians as a whole. Just intra-Punjabi genetic variation. Some Punjabis can be genetically closer to Iranian Baloch or Southeastern Iranians (Sistanis as an example) than they are to "lower castes" from their own village. It may not have a one to one correlation to phenotype but it certainly does play some role. Also, even North Indian is a massively broad term. For example, a UP Kshatriya is genetically much closer to a Southern Brahmin than they are to a West UP Jaat or Punjabi Khatri. An UP Chamar can be closer to a South Indian dalit than they are to a Brahmin from their own region.
    Ok sure but that does not negate my argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynic View Post
    Ok sure but that does not negate my argument.
    Which is what? That 100 million Punjabis more or less look the same as the other 1 billion+ South Asians? Or the phenotype variation is almost nil or super uniform in South Asia despite the massive genetic variation?

    I'm not here to change your opinion but even my own family's phenotype variation is hardly uniform. So why would all Punjabis or South Asians be?
    Last edited by Sapporo; 06-12-2021 at 09:56 PM.
    pegasus modeling:
    sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Sapporo_AGUser",
    "fit": 1.1506,
    "IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3": 43.33,
    "TKM_Gonur1_BA": 31.67,
    "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25,
    "closestDistances": [

    avatar credit goes out to aaronbee2010

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  16. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    Which is what? That 100 million Punjabis more or less look the same as the other 1 billion+ South Asians? Or the phenotype variation is almost nil or super uniform in South Asia despite the massive genetic variation?
    For the most part, yes. As for your argument about castes, I do not think that the lower castes are migrating to the west as a result of discrimination and as such I doubt Ive ever encountered any(though I cannot be sure). So that aspect is not really relevant in these conversations.

    And Im aware there may be variation within families. Im moreso arguing that there is less variation between groups from what I can tell.

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