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Thread: South Asian genetics misconceptions

  1. #11
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    Only brahmins are foreign dna

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    Quote Originally Posted by noman View Post
    Everyone is my family used to say that we are are Arab descendants. I got the family tree from one of my uncles too. I searched names on that tree online, and it looked legit. Lately, I came across some genealogical records and found that there is something wrong with that tree, so I decided to do DNA test. It proved that tree was wrong. Some of the family members still believe in it, but I don't. My mom used to tell stores about some Chauhan guy and snakes. Later, I found out that it was Goga Ji, who was Chauhan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gogaji
    If I had a penny for everytime a South Asian Muslim said he was descended from a Syed or a Quraish , I would be a multi billionaire by now.

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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    Other is some Indian muslim families I have known claim that their ancestor came to spread Islam to South Asia. Even when that is true it is a few people out of hundreds.
    Theoretically it's possible that all Muslims in a region, say UP, descended from one foreign preacher of high social status. Multiple wives, many children - who themselves achieve high 'reproductive success' owing to their social status.

    Think about it. If every previous generation you have twice as many ancestors, then some UP Muslim guy would have 1.05 million ancestors 600 years ago.

    That's probably more than the entire Muslim population of 15th century UP.
    Many of these ancestor 'positions' would be occupied by a single person. One wealthy or powerful person would occupy many slots for numerous people living today.

    However after 20 generations (600 years), it's likely no traces of his genetics will be left in any person claiming descent from him. Doesn't necessarily mean they are making fake claims.



    Disclaimer: I make no such claim for myself.
    Last edited by thejkhan; 12-28-2018 at 08:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    Theoretically it's possible that all Muslims in a region, say UP, descended from one foreign preacher of high social status. Multiple wives, many children - who themselves achieve high 'reproductive success' owing to their social status.

    Think about it. If every previous generation you have twice as many ancestors, then some UP Muslim guy would have 1.5 million ancestors 600 years ago.

    That's probably more than the entire population of Muslims in 15th century UP.
    Many of these ancestor 'positions' would be occupied by a single person. One wealthy or powerful person would occupy many slots for numerous people living today.

    However after 20 generations (600 years), it's likely no traces of his genetics will be left in any person claiming descent from him. Doesn't necessarily mean they are making fake claims.



    Disclaimer: I make no such claim for myself.
    I think it's probably closer to a few thousand moving into North India. Not everyone will have great reproductive success. Population of the Indian Subcontinent was around 110 million in 1500, 200 million in 1800. A few thousand people is a drop in the bucket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    Theoretically it's possible that all Muslims in a region, say UP, descended from one foreign preacher of high social status. Multiple wives, many children - who themselves achieve high 'reproductive success' owing to their social status.

    Think about it. If every previous generation you have twice as many ancestors, then some UP Muslim guy would have 1.05 million ancestors 600 years ago.

    That's probably more than the entire Muslim population of 15th century UP.
    Many of these ancestor 'positions' would be occupied by a single person. One wealthy or powerful person would occupy many slots for numerous people living today.

    However after 20 generations (600 years), it's likely no traces of his genetics will be left in any person claiming descent from him. Doesn't necessarily mean they are making fake claims.



    Disclaimer: I make no such claim for myself.
    It's possible, but then we would be seeing way more foreign Y-DNA haplogroups than we currently do. Usually what happens when someone is mistakenly claiming foreign ancestry is that they come out 100% South Asian autosomally with some sort of Y-DNA that is also very local and common to South Asia. It's way more likely that someone somewhere along the line just made up a lie.

    However, there are actually a decent number of Muslims in India who do have foreign ancestry and it's oftentimes obvious right when you see them. Unfortunately they are drowned out by the masses who falsely claim it and you end up with certain nationalists and others claiming foreign ancestry does not exist at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    I think it's probably closer to a few thousand moving into North India. Not everyone will have great reproductive success. Population of the Indian Subcontinent was around 110 million in 1500, 200 million in 1800. A few thousand people is a drop in the bucket.
    If those few thousand formed the elite Muslim class, then it's possible every North Indian Muslim can trace ancestry to one of them. (But then no one is more special than anyone else, lol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    It's possible, but then we would be seeing way more foreign Y-DNA haplogroups than we currently do.
    Look at it this way.

    A hypothetical tribal population, Iruniya, is 2% R1A and 98% H/F/C.

    The founding population was small, 100 people, around 1000 years ago. Today Iruniya are so genetically homogenous that every Iruniya has same Harappa scores.

    Doesn't that mean every Iruniya has a Steppe ancestor, despite only 2% y-dna R1a? Hope you get the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    If those few thousand formed the elite Muslim class, then it's possible every North Indian Muslim can trace ancestry to one of them. (But then no one is more special than anyone else, lol).
    It doesn't make sense because the majority of Muslims were local converts. Delhi Sultanate and Mughals both converted locals in various ways including Jizyah, administrative maneuvers (other ways too but I don't want to start a troll war). Today Pakistan has 200 million, India 150 million, 160 in Bangladesh. All these people possibly cannot come from a few thousand people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by purohit View Post
    Only brahmins are foreign dna
    I think that comes from the anti higher caste movement in India. Brahmins are enemy number 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    It doesn't make sense because the majority of Muslims were local converts. Delhi Sultanate and Mughals both converted locals in various ways including Jizyah, administrative maneuvers (other ways too but I don't want to start a troll war).
    Millions of Europeans can trace their ancestry to Charlemagne. Many of them are not French.

    Million others can trace their ancestry to Niall of the Nine Hostages. Many of them are not Irish.

    It's theoretically not impossible for millions of Muslims to trace ancestry to some foreign preacher or royal/elite person living centuries ago. Autosomally they are all going to be 100% South Asian.

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