Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 119

Thread: South Asian genetics misconceptions

  1. #71
    Registered Users
    Posts
    147
    Sex
    Location
    London, UK
    Ethnicity
    Euro/Asian/SSA
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    O-F1399
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1

    Madagascar Mauritius Spain Azad Kashmir France China
    This is my timeline it indicates I have a very distant Mongolian ancestor. I think this is from my mum's side as she scores .3% Siberian which I inherited none of, perhaps the Mongolian is just misinterpreted ancient Siberian ancestry

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Adam A For This Useful Post:

     khanabadoshi (01-08-2019),  Mandoos (01-07-2019),  parasar (01-07-2019),  pnb123 (01-07-2019)

  3. #72
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,536
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Punjabi Sikh Ramgarhia
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-Y7 > Y2568*
    mtDNA (M)
    M3a2
    Y-DNA (M)
    L1a2
    mtDNA (P)
    U2b2

    India Punjab Canada Sikh Empire Nishan Sahib
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam A View Post
    Could I see you and Khanabadoshi's 23andMe results? I've never seen even a trace of EE in any South Asian populations so this should be interesting
    It's our EHG and Siberian like steppe that gives us East european

    Here you go:

    Attachment 28200
    Deg Teg Fateh - Victory to Charity and Arms

    Punjab, Punjabi, Fateh.

    Paternal Haplogroup: R1a1a Y7>Y2568*

    Maternal Haplogroup: M3a2

    Father's Maternal Haplogroup: U2b2

    Mother's Paternal Haplogroup (most likely): L1a2

    Paternal Grandmother Haplogroup: J-CTS5368

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to MonkeyDLuffy For This Useful Post:

     Adam A (01-07-2019)

  5. #73
    Registered Users
    Posts
    951
    Sex

    According to 23andme, I likely had an ancestor that was 100% Western Asian that lived sometime between 1750 & 1860. I also likely had an ancestor that was 100% Native American that lived between 1700 and 1800. And of course South Asian ancestor that lived very recently.
    Last edited by pnb123; 01-08-2019 at 09:26 AM.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pnb123 For This Useful Post:

     Adam A (01-07-2019),  bmoney (01-07-2019),  FrostAssassin0701 (01-07-2019)

  7. #74
    Administrator
    Posts
    3,865
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2a*-M124 (L295-)
    mtDNA (M)
    D4j5*

    England
    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    They didn't loot anything because by the Middle Bronze age , much of Northern South Asia had already severely collapsed and the cities were depopulated. Also there is no Sintashta/Andronovo cultural footprints ie pottery, rather they got BMACized via mixing before moving on and largely abandoned much of their Steppe culture save for religious and burial aspects and some metallurgy.
    There are some rather unusual vestiges of the steppe cultural influences in the Iranian plateau and Indian subcontinent in addition to the above.

    For instance, according to the Russian archaeologist Kuz'mina, Gilakis in northern Iran have maintained the summertime "steppe tradition" of loosely-covered, subterranean, timber-composed housing.

    Another is the continuation of the Indo-European "dragon slayer-hero" folk myth, which has persisted into modern Persian tradition (Rostam in the Shahnameh). The Indo-Aryan equivalent is, of course, Indra (slayer of Vritra).

  8. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to DMXX For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (01-08-2019),  bmoney (01-08-2019),  Kulin (12-11-2019),  parasar (01-08-2019),  pegasus (01-08-2019),  tipirneni (01-09-2019)

  9. #75
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,870
    Sex
    Location
    America
    Ethnicity
    Moluccan

    Siberian Tatars Tajikistan
    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    There are some rather unusual vestiges of the steppe cultural influences in the Iranian plateau and Indian subcontinent in addition to the above.

    For instance, according to the Russian archaeologist Kuz'mina, Gilakis in northern Iran have maintained the summertime "steppe tradition" of loosely-covered, subterranean, timber-composed housing.

    Another is the continuation of the Indo-European "dragon slayer-hero" folk myth, which has persisted into modern Persian tradition (Rostam in the Shahnameh). The Indo-Aryan equivalent is, of course, Indra (slayer of Vritra).
    But it makes sense though. Indians are very very culturally different from Europeans and others who derive from steppe culture. They are mostly peaceful aside from a few martial clans(who themselves tend to have high steppe admixture-not implying there is a correlation) while I imagined these steppe nomads to have been quite warlike. It makes perfect sense that they lost their culture over time with the proof of their entrance into the region being largely genetic(R1a1) and linguistic(Indo-Aryan languages).

  10. #76
    Administrator
    Posts
    3,865
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2a*-M124 (L295-)
    mtDNA (M)
    D4j5*

    England
    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    But it makes sense though. Indians are very very culturally different from Europeans and others who derive from steppe culture. They are mostly peaceful aside from a few martial clans(who themselves tend to have high steppe admixture-not implying there is a correlation) while I imagined these steppe nomads to have been quite warlike. It makes perfect sense that they lost their culture over time with the proof of their entrance into the region being largely genetic(R1a1) and linguistic(Indo-Aryan languages).
    Timeframe specificity is everything, here. You're describing multiple spatiotemporally segregated groups.

    The early Indo-Europeans looked largely patriarchal (with some elements of egalitarianism). Sometimes peaceful (guest-host honour system), sometimes not (warrior bands). They also weren't nomads.

    The people of Sintashta were settled metallurgists who were much more militarised culturally and saw a lot of local conflict. We know little about their culture, other than what can be inferred from the archaeological data, or through comparative research (e.g. Rig Vedic and Avestan overlap). They had minimal trade relations with the BMAC.

    The Indo-Iranians who reached Iran and India weren't as warlike as the people of Sintashta. That much can be inferred from the material goods and their clear hybridisation with the BMAC. Those Indo-Iranians who remained in the steppe weren't particularly violent, either (less so than the neolithic farmers of continental Europe).

    Military technology began to take shape in the steppes pretty early on (Seima-Turbino phenomenon is among the earliest IIRC). By the late Iron Age and early Classical period, we have Greek and Persian accounts of the Scythians as warlike (and we can infer they were the highway bandits described in Chinese sources along the Silk Road).

    In short, there isn't a linear relationship between how "warlike" a modern population is and how steppe-derived they are genetically.

    One example to further the point - Iranians were pretty warlike up until the Arab invasion of Persia, yet we now know they haven't changed much genetically (why they became more docile is a separate conversation).

  11. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to DMXX For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (01-09-2019),  Censored (01-09-2019),  khanabadoshi (01-09-2019),  Kulin (12-11-2019),  Mandoos (01-08-2019),  misanthropy (01-09-2019),  MonkeyDLuffy (01-08-2019),  parasar (01-08-2019),  poi (01-09-2019),  Sapporo (01-08-2019),  tipirneni (01-09-2019)

  12. #77
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    7,149

    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    There are some rather unusual vestiges of the steppe cultural influences in the Iranian plateau and Indian subcontinent in addition to the above.

    For instance, according to the Russian archaeologist Kuz'mina, Gilakis in northern Iran have maintained the summertime "steppe tradition" of loosely-covered, subterranean, timber-composed housing.

    Another is the continuation of the Indo-European "dragon slayer-hero" folk myth, which has persisted into modern Persian tradition (Rostam in the Shahnameh). The Indo-Aryan equivalent is, of course, Indra (slayer of Vritra).
    The snake becomes the dragon, though it remains a snake in the Rg Vedic and Zoroastrian versions (Ahi, Azhi). As a snake envelopes its prey, vritra (enveloper) is another usage for snake.

    Griffith translated Ah as dragon.
    "He slew the Dragon, then disclosed the waters
    He slew the Dragon lying on the mountain"
    https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv01032.htm

    अहन्नहिमन्वपस्ततर्द पर वक्षणा अभिनत पर्वतानाम
    अहन्नहिं पर्वते शिश्रियाणं तवष्टास्मै वज्रं सवर्यं ततक्ष
    https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rvsan/rv01032.htm

    Not sure if the snake became a dragon in China first or in Europe.

  13. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (01-09-2019),  DMXX (01-08-2019),  Kulin (12-11-2019),  MonkeyDLuffy (01-08-2019),  poi (01-08-2019),  Sapporo (01-08-2019)

  14. #78
    Registered Users
    Posts
    770
    Sex
    Location
    Gonur Tepe
    Y-DNA (P)
    L-SK1414
    mtDNA (M)
    U8b1a1

    African Union Ainu AchaemenidEmpire1 Kurdistan Star of David Dravida Nadu
    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    But it makes sense though. Indians are very very culturally different from Europeans and others who derive from steppe culture. They are mostly peaceful aside from a few martial clans(who themselves tend to have high steppe admixture-not implying there is a correlation) while I imagined these steppe nomads to have been quite warlike. It makes perfect sense that they lost their culture over time with the proof of their entrance into the region being largely genetic(R1a1) and linguistic(Indo-Aryan languages).
    There are quite “martial” groups in South Asia with little to no steppe admix(Jarawas, Nagas, several indigenous groups etc). While Brahmins tend to be quite peaceful for the most part despite having a ton of steppe admix. Also, many European groups are quite peaceful and can vary in culture drastically. You can’t link “warlike” behavior to admix groups in a serious conversation.

  15. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to jesus For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (01-09-2019),  DMXX (01-08-2019),  MonkeyDLuffy (01-08-2019),  parasar (01-08-2019),  poi (01-09-2019),  prashantvaidwan (01-09-2019),  tipirneni (01-09-2019)

  16. #79
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,870
    Sex
    Location
    America
    Ethnicity
    Moluccan

    Siberian Tatars Tajikistan
    Quote Originally Posted by jesus View Post
    There are quite “martial” groups in South Asia with little to no steppe admix(Jarawas, Nagas, several indigenous groups etc). While Brahmins tend to be quite peaceful for the most part despite having a ton of steppe admix. Also, many European groups are quite peaceful and can vary in culture drastically. You can’t link “warlike” behavior to admix groups in a serious conversation.
    Of course, that’s why I put a disclaimer saying that I wasn’t necessarily implying they were connected. Probably just a coincidence

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Censored For This Useful Post:

     poi (01-09-2019)

  18. #80
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,401
    Location
    Gonur Tepe

    Afghanistan Jammu and Kashmir United States of America Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Timeframe specificity is everything, here. You're describing multiple spatiotemporally segregated groups.

    The early Indo-Europeans looked largely patriarchal (with some elements of egalitarianism). Sometimes peaceful (guest-host honour system), sometimes not (warrior bands). They also weren't nomads.

    The people of Sintashta were settled metallurgists who were much more militarised culturally and saw a lot of local conflict. We don't know anything about their culture other than what can be inferred from the archaeological data. They had minimal trade relations with the BMAC.

    The Indo-Iranians who reached Iran and India weren't as warlike as the people of Sintashta. That much can be inferred from the material goods and their clear hybridisation with the BMAC. Those Indo-Iranians who remained in the steppe weren't particularly violent, either (less so than the neolithic farmers of continental Europe).

    Military technology began to take shape in the steppes pretty early on (Seima-Turbino phenomenon is among the earliest IIRC). By the late Iron Age and early Classical period, we have Greek and Persian accounts of the Scythians as warlike (and we can infer they were the highway bandits described in Chinese sources along the Silk Road).

    In short, there isn't a linear relationship between how "warlike" a modern population is and how steppe-derived they are genetically.

    One example to further the point - Iranians were pretty warlike up until the Arab invasion of Persia, yet we now know they haven't changed much genetically (why they became more docile is a separate conversation).
    The level of warfare the Sintashta indulged in was quite violent almost reminiscent of Game of Thrones, limited agricultural resources was the main driver and this is extremely likely why Proto Indo Aryans were driven out of the Steppe early on , coupled with the theological schisms between them. Though they are text book example of how limited resources are a driver of ingenuity and violence lol. Of all IE related cultures, Sintashta was most definitely the most sophisticated and this can also see be evidenced at Arkhaim.

  19. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to pegasus For This Useful Post:

     26284729292 (01-09-2019),  agent_lime (01-09-2019),  bmoney (01-09-2019),  DMXX (01-08-2019),  poi (01-09-2019),  prashantvaidwan (01-09-2019)

Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 85
    Last Post: 01-25-2019, 03:20 AM
  2. Replies: 28
    Last Post: 06-30-2018, 03:36 AM
  3. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-27-2018, 11:18 AM
  4. Notes on South Asian genetics, 2018
    By firemonkey in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 01-27-2018, 03:44 PM
  5. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-06-2017, 02:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •