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Thread: Descent from Royals, Sages, Saints [ South Asia ]

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    This is an interesting discussion. Simple math would dictate that all minor foreign contributions would eventually dissolve into the majority genetics (in the case of mainland India, it would probably be ASI). So how is it that Pontic Steppe (aka 'Finnish' or 'Scandinavian' on DNA testing companies) STILL persists as a noticeable presence in NW South Asians, even in plenty of interior Indians, after well over a thousand years? Will it eventually reach zero??? Edit: Or maybe the steppe involved like what? thousands of steppe individual inputs vs. Muslim foreign ancestry a lot less - a few hundred at best? Not sure.
    Simple. If the founding population of a group has X% Steppe AND caste endogamy is established, ideally the population should continue to recycle the same genes and have X% Steppe forever. There is no dilution.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    Simple. If the founding population of a group has X% Steppe AND caste endogamy is established, ideally the population should continue to recycle the same genes and have X% Steppe forever. There is no dilution.
    There aren't a lot of instances of foreign muslim heritage being strongly retained. I think saif ali khan is one of the few I can think of. I'm sure there are more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26284729292 View Post
    There aren't a lot of instances of foreign muslim heritage being strongly retained. I think saif ali khan is one of the few I can think of. I'm sure there are more.
    There are certain endogamous Muslim groups with significant foreign ancestry (Iranian, Iraqi, Turkic and Afghan ancestry). But that's not the point of this thread. It's counter to the point of the thread, which is you can be a descendent of someone without retaining anything.

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    There are certain endogamous Muslim groups with significant foreign ancestry (Iranian, Iraqi, Turkic and Afghan ancestry). But that's not the point of this thread. It's counter to the point of the thread, which is you can be a descendent of someone without retaining anything.
    Within india? Are you implying that mujahirs got it through iran/iraq/turkey/afghanistan? If so, to what extent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 26284729292 View Post
    Within india? Are you implying that mujahirs got it through iran/iraq/turkey/afghanistan? If so, to what extent?
    Within India.

    There's no "muhajir" within India.

    There are couple of groups with high foreign ancestry.
    Such as:
    Iraqi Tamimis (UP based)
    Iranian Shia (Deccan based)


    Anyways we are going off-topic. This thread is not about proving whether Muslims groups with significant foreign ancestry exists. (they do)

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    Within India.

    There's no "muhajir" within India.

    There are couple of groups with high foreign ancestry.
    Such as:
    Iraqi Tamimis (UP based)
    Iranian Shia (Deccan based)


    Anyways we are going off-topic. This thread is not about proving whether Muslims groups with significant foreign ancestry exists. (they do)
    Man somebody needs to do a study of the Chaush residing in Barkas. It is also one of the rare Muslim Indian communties with a significant, fairly recent (1800s roughly) foreign mixture. It might even have the highest foreign mixture depending on endogamy and recent immigrants from Arabia (they have a bustling Gulf Arabian imports market after all), who knows.
    Last edited by misanthropy; 01-09-2019 at 12:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misanthropy View Post
    Man somebody needs to do a study of the Chaush residing in Barkas. It is also one of the rare Muslim Indian communties with a significant, fairly recent (1800s roughly) foreign mixture. It might even have the highest foreign mixture depending on endogamy and recent immigrants from Arabia (they have a bustling Gulf Arabian imports market after all), who knows.
    The Chuash are not uniformly spread out & married into dekhani people in Southern Mogul areas like Turani people. So you find nill of them in major Educational & Hightech hubs like Chennai, Bangalore, Vijayawada, Vizag etc..

    Even in Hyderabad Other than some old city areas they are not found in high tech city, Cyberabad, New city areas like Kukatpally Dilsukhnagar Lingampally etc... Unless there is talk among educated people there won't be research works & papers coming forth.

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    Interesting thread - thanks for sharing. Immediately caught my eye as my family are Chishtis (of the Nizami sub-branch, to be specific) and have quite a big following back home, centering on our shrine in Lahore. It's tucked away from all the hustle and bustle of Lahore urban life - it's situated in what's now DHA Phase 8, and goes by the name 'Khawaja Wali Darbar'. It dates from the 1920s, if I'm correct, and gets quite festive at various times of the year when Urs celebrations are on. But anyways, just wanted to share my story on the issue of foreign ancestry. I am told that my family have lived in the Old City of Lahore since the first half of the nineteenth-century. My family elders say my great-great-great-great grandfather, Sheikh Shihabuddin, a cleric, was the first to settle in the subcontinent, and traveled from Khorasan or Sistan in modern-day Iran/Afghanistan to Punjab. All of my female ancestors, from the mid-1850s onwards, have been Rajputs belonging to various clans. I was interested to probe the foreign ancestry claim in my family - so tried my hand at 23andme. Y-DNA came back as J-M172 (w/o subclade specification) and autosomal results didn't throw up anything particularly suggestive of recent foreign admixture.. I'd be interested to see results from others with similar such stories linked to Sufi shrine heritage.. I've actually just ordered a kit for my paternal granddad as was curious to see whether his results would show anything particularly different from my own - will post when I have the results!
    Last edited by Ahmed Ali; 01-13-2019 at 04:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    Interesting thread - thanks for sharing. Immediately caught my eye as my family are Chishtis (of the Nizami sub-branch, to be specific) and have quite a big following back home, centering on our shrine in Lahore. It's a tucked away in what's now DHA Phase 8, and goes by the name 'Khawaja Wali Darbar'. It dates from the 1920s, if I'm correct, and gets quite festive at various times of the year when Urs celebrations are on. But anyways, just wanted to share my story on the issue of foreign ancestry. I am told that my family have lived in the Old City of Lahore since the first half of the nineteenth-century. My family elders say my great-great-great-great grandfather, Sheikh Shihabuddin, a cleric, was the first to settle in the subcontinent, and traveled from Khorasan or Sistan in modern-day Iran/Afghanistan to Punjab. All of my female ancestors, from the mid-1850s onwards, have been Rajputs belonging to various clans. I was interested to probe the foreign ancestry claim in my family - so tried my hand at 23andme. Y-DNA came back as J-M172 (w/o subclade specification) and autosomal results didn't throw up anything particularly suggestive of recent foreign admixture.. I'd be interested to see results from others with similar such stories linked to Sufi shrine heritage.. I've actually just ordered a kit for my paternal granddad as was curious to see whether his results would show anything particularly different from my own - will post when I have the results!
    Thanks for posting. Do you mind posting your Harappa scores? Upload your data here.

    https://genesis.gedmatch.com/login1.php

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    Sure thing, happy to share my Harappa scores. Have ran my tests through Gedmatch once or twice before (my apologies, am fairly new to this stuff so not particularly well versed in how to interpret results) but some of the more experienced members were able to help me out. If I recall correctly they were of the opinion that my scores looked fairly consistent with general Pakistani Punjabi results. But happy to hear any thoughts/opinions

    S-Indian 31.78 Pct
    Baloch 38.93 Pct
    Caucasian 14.01 Pct
    NE-Euro 8.97 Pct
    SE-Asian 0.52 Pct
    Siberian 0.87 Pct
    NE-Asian 1.09 Pct
    Papuan 0.94 Pct
    American 0.66 Pct
    Beringian 0.33 Pct
    Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian 1.44 Pct
    San 0.22 Pct
    E-African 0.25 Pct
    Pygmy -
    W-African -

    Also I recently noticed I have 8 Afghan Tajik DNA relatives on 23andme, and 2 other matches in Azerbaijan and Turkey. Am I correct in thinking these are just individuals with whom I share some generic common DNA rather than representing real recent cousins?

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