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Thread: Descent from Royals, Sages, Saints [ South Asia ]

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    Sure thing, happy to share my Harappa scores. Have ran my tests through Gedmatch once or twice before (my apologies, am fairly new to this stuff so not particularly well versed in how to interpret results) but some of the more experienced members were able to help me out. If I recall correctly they were of the opinion that my scores looked fairly consistent with general Pakistani Punjabi results. But happy to hear any thoughts/opinions

    S-Indian 31.78 Pct
    Baloch 38.93 Pct
    Caucasian 14.01 Pct
    NE-Euro 8.97 Pct
    SE-Asian 0.52 Pct
    Siberian 0.87 Pct
    NE-Asian 1.09 Pct
    Papuan 0.94 Pct
    American 0.66 Pct
    Beringian 0.33 Pct
    Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian 1.44 Pct
    San 0.22 Pct
    E-African 0.25 Pct
    Pygmy -
    W-African -

    Also I recently noticed I have 8 Afghan Tajik DNA relatives on 23andme, and 2 other matches in Azerbaijan and Turkey. Am I correct in thinking these are just individuals with whom I share some generic common DNA rather than representing real recent cousins?
    Your Caucasian is on the higher side, which can indicate Iranian like mix. SW Asian is however not that high. Are you a Arian? I suspect you have some minor foreign ancestry, I don't have Afghans/ Tajiks on my ancestry matches even though I have higher Caucasian than you. Here is mine.

    # Population Percent
    1 Baloch 38.07
    2 S-Indian 28.02
    3 Caucasian 16.52
    4 NE-Euro 10.84
    5 SW-Asian 2.09
    6 American 1.43
    7 Papuan 1.19
    8 Siberian 0.73
    9 Beringian 0.61
    10 W-African 0.49
    11 NE-Asian 0.01

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  3. #52
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    That's interesting to hear, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm hoping my grandfather's results might help shed some more light on it. Would be cool to know if I do have anything foreign in the mix - or if I'm just a local Rajput lad from Lahore after all hehe

    I don't have any Arain heritage as far as I know. I've grown up being told I'm Rajput (apart from my maternal grandmother who is 1/2 Awan and 1/2 something unascertained from Mansehra) and nearly all of my recent heritage is from Lahore and the Northern Punjab.

    On the DNA relatives, I just took another glance at the list and there are 8 Afghan Tajiks and 1 Pashtun in the mix. I triangulated our results using the comparison tool and I share segments with 3 of them along the same segments - not sure whether this means anything.. I suspect there are more but their profiles are hidden.

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  5. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    That's interesting to hear, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm hoping my grandfather's results might help shed some more light on it. Would be cool to know if I do have anything foreign in the mix - or if I'm just a local Rajput lad from Lahore after all hehe

    I don't have any Arain heritage as far as I know. I've grown up being told I'm Rajput (apart from my maternal grandmother who is 1/2 Awan and 1/2 something unascertained from Mansehra) and nearly all of my recent heritage is from Lahore and the Northern Punjab.

    On the DNA relatives, I just took another glance at the list and there are 8 Afghan Tajiks and 1 Pashtun in the mix. I triangulated our results using the comparison tool and I share segments with 3 of them along the same segments - not sure whether this means anything.. I suspect there are more but their profiles are hidden.
    This makes me think there is some minor shared ancestry. You can get G25 coordinates and we can try to put an Iranian proxy for you. There is a reasonable chance that your family claims of great great great grandfather is true. Maybe someone else can chime in. Can you post 4 way oracles from Harappa?

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    Sure thing, happy to share my Harappa scores. Have ran my tests through Gedmatch once or twice before (my apologies, am fairly new to this stuff so not particularly well versed in how to interpret results) but some of the more experienced members were able to help me out. If I recall correctly they were of the opinion that my scores looked fairly consistent with general Pakistani Punjabi results. But happy to hear any thoughts/opinions

    S-Indian 31.78 Pct
    Baloch 38.93 Pct
    Caucasian 14.01 Pct
    NE-Euro 8.97 Pct
    SE-Asian 0.52 Pct
    Siberian 0.87 Pct
    NE-Asian 1.09 Pct
    Papuan 0.94 Pct
    American 0.66 Pct
    Beringian 0.33 Pct
    Mediterranean -
    SW-Asian 1.44 Pct
    San 0.22 Pct
    E-African 0.25 Pct
    Pygmy -
    W-African -

    Also I recently noticed I have 8 Afghan Tajik DNA relatives on 23andme, and 2 other matches in Azerbaijan and Turkey. Am I correct in thinking these are just individuals with whom I share some generic common DNA rather than representing real recent cousins?
    You score pretty similar to Jatt muslims, who are zagrosian shifted jatt sikhs, who are zagrosian shifted UP Jats.

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    That sounds interesting - I'd like to try the G25 coordinates/Iranian proxy you mentioned - would be nice to know if there's any truth to the claim. What would that involve?

    4 way oracles as follows - looks quite South Asian as I understand it..

    1 gujarati-patel_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.386438
    2 gujarati-a_hapmap + kerala-brahmin_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.449962
    3 ap-hyderabad_harappa + kalash_hgdp + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.472081
    4 gujarati-patel_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-arain_xing + urkarah_xing @ 1.476447
    5 gujarati-a_hapmap + kerala-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-arain_xing + urkarah_xing @ 1.491766
    6 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kerala-brahmin_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.530536
    7 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.557011
    8 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + meghawal_metspalu + pathan_hgdp @ 1.569853
    9 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kerala-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-arain_xing + urkarah_xing @ 1.581638
    10 ap-hyderabad_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + pathan_hgdp @ 1.584326
    11 gujarati-a_hapmap + kerala-nair_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.601358
    12 ap-hyderabad_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + sindhi_harappa @ 1.624200
    13 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + maharashtrian_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.624934
    14 gujarati_harappa + gujarati-a_hapmap + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.637211
    15 gujarati_harappa + gujarati-a_1000genomes + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.662190
    16 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kerala-nair_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.662681
    17 kalash_hgdp + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tamil_harappa @ 1.665556
    18 kalash_hgdp + kerala-christian_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.677185
    19 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tn-brahmin_xing @ 1.681592
    20 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + meghawal_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.684641

  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    That sounds interesting - I'd like to try the G25 coordinates/Iranian proxy you mentioned - would be nice to know if there's any truth to the claim. What would that involve?

    4 way oracles as follows - looks quite South Asian as I understand it..

    1 gujarati-patel_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.386438
    2 gujarati-a_hapmap + kerala-brahmin_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.449962
    3 ap-hyderabad_harappa + kalash_hgdp + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.472081
    4 gujarati-patel_harappa + kerala-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-arain_xing + urkarah_xing @ 1.476447
    5 gujarati-a_hapmap + kerala-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-arain_xing + urkarah_xing @ 1.491766
    6 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kerala-brahmin_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.530536
    7 brahmin-tamil-nadu_metspalu + kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.557011
    8 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + meghawal_metspalu + pathan_hgdp @ 1.569853
    9 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kerala-brahmin_harappa + punjabi-arain_xing + urkarah_xing @ 1.581638
    10 ap-hyderabad_harappa + kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + pathan_hgdp @ 1.584326
    11 gujarati-a_hapmap + kerala-nair_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.601358
    12 ap-hyderabad_harappa + kalash_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + sindhi_harappa @ 1.624200
    13 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + maharashtrian_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.624934
    14 gujarati_harappa + gujarati-a_hapmap + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.637211
    15 gujarati_harappa + gujarati-a_1000genomes + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.662190
    16 gujarati-a_1000genomes + kerala-nair_harappa + sindhi_hgdp + urkarah_xing @ 1.662681
    17 kalash_hgdp + pathan_hgdp + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tamil_harappa @ 1.665556
    18 kalash_hgdp + kerala-christian_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.677185
    19 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + punjabi-khatri_harappa + tn-brahmin_xing @ 1.681592
    20 kalash_hgdp + kashmiri_harappa + meghawal_reich + punjabi-khatri_harappa @ 1.684641
    This is a caucasus group.

    You comfortably model as 1/4 south brahmin, 1/2 punjabi/kashmiri, and 1/4 pathan as well. The pathan and south brahmin probably average out to something similar to punjabi/kashmiri as well, which ends up putting you comfortably in the jatt muslim range, meaning you score like typical NW shifted south asians on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    That sounds interesting - I'd like to try the G25 coordinates/Iranian proxy you mentioned - would be nice to know if there's any truth to the claim. What would that involve?
    http://bga101.blogspot.com/2018/02/t...available.html

    You have to paypal David $12. He will get you coordinates. Then you post in the sticky thread in the Hindi section.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agent_lime View Post
    http://bga101.blogspot.com/2018/02/t...available.html

    You have to paypal David $12. He will get you coordinates. Then you post in the sticky thread in the Hindi section.
    If Sheikh Shihabuddin from 1850 is his only foreign ancestor then I'll be surprised if he finds identifiable traces of this ancestry in his autosomal DNA.

    Waste of money to be honest.

    @Ahmed Ali - if that's your patrilineal line, the answer lies in your y-dna. You can test to find out deeper clades and compare with others in YFull.

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  16. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    That's interesting to hear, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm hoping my grandfather's results might help shed some more light on it. Would be cool to know if I do have anything foreign in the mix - or if I'm just a local Rajput lad from Lahore after all hehe

    I don't have any Arain heritage as far as I know. I've grown up being told I'm Rajput (apart from my maternal grandmother who is 1/2 Awan and 1/2 something unascertained from Mansehra) and nearly all of my recent heritage is from Lahore and the Northern Punjab.

    On the DNA relatives, I just took another glance at the list and there are 8 Afghan Tajiks and 1 Pashtun in the mix. I triangulated our results using the comparison tool and I share segments with 3 of them along the same segments - not sure whether this means anything.. I suspect there are more but their profiles are hidden.
    Looking at your Harappa Numbers I could guess you had a good chance of having a Northern Punjabi(Potohari) heritage.

  17. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    If Sheikh Shihabuddin from 1850 is his only foreign ancestor then I'll be surprised if he finds identifiable traces of this ancestry in his autosomal DNA.

    Waste of money to be honest.

    @Ahmed Ali - if that's your patrilineal line, the answer lies in your y-dna. You can test to find out deeper clades and compare with others in YFull.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Ali View Post
    Interesting thread - thanks for sharing. Immediately caught my eye as my family are Chishtis (of the Nizami sub-branch, to be specific) and have quite a big following back home, centering on our shrine in Lahore. It's tucked away from all the hustle and bustle of Lahore urban life - it's situated in what's now DHA Phase 8, and goes by the name 'Khawaja Wali Darbar'. It dates from the 1920s, if I'm correct, and gets quite festive at various times of the year when Urs celebrations are on. But anyways, just wanted to share my story on the issue of foreign ancestry. I am told that my family have lived in the Old City of Lahore since the first half of the nineteenth-century. My family elders say my great-great-great-great grandfather, Sheikh Shihabuddin, a cleric, was the first to settle in the subcontinent, and traveled from Khorasan or Sistan in modern-day Iran/Afghanistan to Punjab. All of my female ancestors, from the mid-1850s onwards, have been Rajputs belonging to various clans. I was interested to probe the foreign ancestry claim in my family - so tried my hand at 23andme. Y-DNA came back as J-M172 (w/o subclade specification) and autosomal results didn't throw up anything particularly suggestive of recent foreign admixture.. I'd be interested to see results from others with similar such stories linked to Sufi shrine heritage.. I've actually just ordered a kit for my paternal granddad as was curious to see whether his results would show anything particularly different from my own - will post when I have the results!

    I viewed the YFULL tree for J-M172 (J2). The tree is quite large, but there are only 3 persons from Iran, none from Afghanistan, 34 from India, 14 from Pakistan (12 Punjab), 9 from Sri Lanka and 5 from Bangladesh.

    Due to just a few Iranians on the tree and no Afghans, a deep yDna test might not immediately prove or disprove the ancestor claim. However a deep yDNA test would be the best way to prove or disprove it in the end. If it cannot be proven now, then it would be proven in future if more people come onto YFULL. For the tree to grow with more subclades, it is important for more people to do the deeper yDNA tests and then YFULL if they can.

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