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Thread: What are East and West Eurasian admixtures?

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    What are East and West Eurasian admixtures?

    Please someone explain East/West Eurasian ancestry to me. What are they? Which regions are East/West Eurasia?

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    I am attemping to summarize all this in a few sentences. OOA involved multiple lines over time... over time, the OOA lines mixed(and many died out as well). Eventually, the surviving lines merged into 2 major lines. One major line contributed mostly to (relatively modern) people west of Central Asia (West Asian and Europeans), while another line contributed to (relatively modern) people East and South of Central Asia (East Asians, Ancient North Eurasian, and Ancestral South Indians).

    But Ancestral North Eurasians, being East Eurasians, also contributed to various "West Eurasian" peoples like Steppe, CHG, and IranN. So, it is likely not as clean cut.

    If I am off, please do correct me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    I am attemping to summarize all this in a few sentences. OOA involved multiple lines over time... over time, the OOA lines mixed(and many died out as well). Eventually, the surviving lines merged into 2 major lines. One major line contributed mostly to (relatively modern) people west of Central Asia (West Asian and Europeans), while another line contributed to (relatively modern) people East and South of Central Asia (East Asians, Ancient North Eurasian, and Ancestral South Indians).

    But Ancestral North Eurasians, being East Eurasians, also contributed to various "West Eurasian" peoples like Steppe, CHG, and IranN. So, it is likely not as clean cut.

    If I am off, please do correct me.
    "East Eurasians" would technically consist of two divergent lines between eastern Non Africans (Onge, AASI, East Asians, Melanesians) and ANE right? Or was this Laziridis diagram not accurate?


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    East Eurasia would be Asia east of the Himalayas and west Eurasia would be Europe+west Asia for the most part. South Asia, Central Asia, and central Siberia could be considered transition zones. Oceanians are also east Eurasians and Native Americans are majority east Eurasian as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoos View Post
    "East Eurasians" would technically consist of two divergent lines between eastern Non Africans (Onge, AASI, East Asians, Melanesians) and ANE right? Or was this Laziridis diagram not accurate?

    ANE was like 70-85% west Eurasian like and 15-30% East Eurasian like.
    Last edited by Censored; 12-30-2018 at 07:28 AM.

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    I saw a thread on another forum that someone claimed East Eurasian includes Southeast and South Asian too while some people claimed it only includes Siberian and Mongolian populations.

    So:
    West Eurasian = Europe + West Asia
    East Eurasian = Anything that's in the East (both north and south) of Central Asia?

    I appreciate if you post link to related studies.

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    "But Ancestral North Eurasians, being East Eurasians, also contributed to various "West Eurasian" peoples like Steppe, CHG, and IranN. So, it is likely not as clean cut."

    Based on what I've seen Ancestral North Eurasians may be a mix of West and East Eurasian. Specifically it can be modeled as Kostenki (70%) and Tianyuan (30%)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro View Post
    Please someone explain East/West Eurasian ancestry to me. What are they? Which regions are East/West Eurasia?
    East and west Eurasian is from the present perspective.

    For example Reich group:
    "For our main analyses, we identified a set of West Eurasian (European and Near Eastern) populations
    as those that had maximum membership of the West Eurasian ancestral population at K=3"
    “West Eurasian” set: Abkhasian, Adygei, Albanian, Armenian, Ashkenazi_Jew, Balkar, Basque,
    BedouinA, BedouinB, Belarusian, Bergamo, Bulgarian, Canary_Islanders, Chechen, Croatian,
    Cypriot, Czech, Druze, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, French_South, Georgian, Georgian_Jew,
    Greek, Hungarian, Icelandic, Iranian, Iranian_Jew, Iraqi_Jew, Italian_South, Jordanian, Kumyk,
    LaBrana, Lebanese, Lezgin, Libyan_Jew, Lithuanian, Loschbour, Maltese, Mordovian,
    Moroccan_Jew, Motala12, Motala_merge, North_Ossetian, Norwegian, Orcadian, Palestinian,
    Russian, Sardinian, Saudi, Scottish, Sicilian, Spanish, Spanish_North, Stuttgart, Syrian,
    Tunisian_Jew, Turkish, Turkish_Jew, Tuscan, Ukrainian, Yemenite_Jew"

    They caution:
    "As suggested previously for Basal Eurasians, we caution against a too literal reading of terminology,
    as the spatial and temporal distribution of the populations associated with the nodes of the model are
    still incompletely known. For example, the category “West Eurasian” could be enlarged to include
    “Ancient North Eurasians” as these share common drift (X→W) with Europeans
    : this may have
    plausibly occurred in West Eurasia prior to an eastward migration of the ancestors of MA16. In a
    different, geographical, sense the category “West Eurasian” could be transferred to the “basal
    Eurasian” element instead, as it is the only one whose presence we can detect only in West Eurasia,
    while the common ancestry of both MA1 and Loschbour with eastern non-Africans (drift
    non_African→X) raises the alternative possibility of an eastern sojourn of their ancestors and a
    temporal priority of “basal Eurasians” in western Eurasia.
    "


    From present perspective, some would say mtDNA M is east Eurasian and N west Eurasian. But the westernmost upper paleolithic sample from Belgium is an M derivative and the eastern most Tianyuan is a N derivative. Australians who have been reasonably isolated since 50000ybp, and are as SE globally as you can get, are mainly N but also have M.

    If we go back in time everything can be construed as being west Eurasian (80kybp), and then later perhaps east Eurasian (60kybp), before splitting again into west and east eurasian about 50000 ybp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retro View Post
    I saw a thread on another forum that someone claimed East Eurasian includes Southeast and South Asian too while some people claimed it only includes Siberian and Mongolian populations.

    So:
    West Eurasian = Europe + West Asia
    East Eurasian = Anything that's in the East (both north and south) of Central Asia?

    I appreciate if you post link to related studies.
    There were a couple of qpGraphs posted about this earlier. I don't have the exact studies at hand, but they can be found online, so you'll have to go to the Harvard Reich Lab's page.

    Basically, if the African-like Basal Eurasian is called "West Eurasian" then West Asia/Europe are significantly West Eurasian. Various parts of West Asia and Europe(particularly Northern/Eastern Europe) have good chunk of Ancient-North-Eurasian through the Steppe migrations. Ancient-North-Eurasian was East Eurasian(at least had significant East Eurasian depending on how this plays out).
    Last edited by poi; 12-30-2018 at 05:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    East and west Eurasian is from the present perspective.

    ...

    From present perspective, some would say mtDNA M is east Eurasian and N west Eurasian. But the westernmost upper paleolithic sample from Belgium is an M derivative and the eastern most Tianyuan is a N derivative. Australians who have been reasonably isolated since 50000ybp, and are as SE globally as you can get, are mainly N but also have M.

    If we go back in time everything can be construed as being west Eurasian (80kybp), and then later perhaps east Eurasian (60kybp), before splitting again into west and east eurasian about 50000 ybp.
    Details on those samples:

    Code:
      {
        "group": "GoyetQ116-1",
        "sample": "Q116-1",
        "country": "Belgium",
        "bce": 32845,
        "latitude": 50.26,
        "longitude": 4.28,
        "ydna": "C1a2",
        "mtdna": "M"
      }
    
      {
        "group": "Tianyuan",
        "sample": "TY",
        "country": "China",
        "bce": 38000,
        "latitude": 39.66138707291937,
        "longitude": 115.89333772659303,
        "mtdna": "B",
      }

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    Details on those samples:

    Code:
      {
        "group": "GoyetQ116-1",
        "sample": "Q116-1",
        "country": "Belgium",
        "bce": 32845,
        "latitude": 50.26,
        "longitude": 4.28,
        "ydna": "C1a2",
        "mtdna": "M"
      }...
    Interestingly on the Y side too, no one would have thought just a few years back that Y-C was a key line in Europe.
    I half expect Tianyuan to be Y-DE.

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