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Thread: what exactly is Scotch/Irish?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fridurich View Post
    That’s interesting! Do you think Patrick was of Irish descent even though he was English sounding? I’m sure you know, Hare can be an indigenous Scottish surname too. At Amazon.com, in previewing Black’s “The Surnames of Scotland”, the forms AHare, AHayer, etc., I believe are mentioned. Seems like the name was mainly in Ayrshire or close by. However, looks like the A prefix eventually got dropped from all forms of Hare. So, Hare can be an, indigenous English, Irish, or Scottish surname! And probably some English Hares migrated to Scotland as well.

    Kind Regards
    Not much to go on other than his first name which suggests his family were (originally) Irish. Not conclusive by any means.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    GEDMatch: A828783 (autosomal DNA), 9427684 (GEDCOM) for segment matching DO NOT POST ADMIXTURE REPORTS USING MY KIT
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015) - further WGS tests pending ;-)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fridurich View Post
    What a lot of people don’t realize, is that you almost always have to do at least 2 tests in Ydna testing, unless you do the Big Y, etc.

    The first test shows what your ystr markers are and can be predictive of what your haplogroup is. You then need to do some kind of snp pack to see what your terminal snp is.
    There are alternative and cheaper strategies than that, for example YSEQ have an all-in SNP test for USD159 that will take you from no prior knowledge at all to a fully terminal SNP.

    https://www.yseq.net/product_info.ph...ducts_id=56898

    They also have an all-in R1b-M343 test including sublevels if you fancy a slight gamble, it is pretty safe for a Gaelic surname. But the first test I mention will cover you if you are hg I too (probably about the only other possibility to worry about for Irish names).
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    GEDMatch: A828783 (autosomal DNA), 9427684 (GEDCOM) for segment matching DO NOT POST ADMIXTURE REPORTS USING MY KIT
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015) - further WGS tests pending ;-)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
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     msmarjoribanks (01-11-2019)

  4. #53
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    Would it be possible to predict my haplogroup by looking at FTDNA? Most of my surname have G-M201?

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    Would it be possible to predict my haplogroup by looking at FTDNA? Most of my surname have G-M201?
    Is that for Cummins or McWilliams? I only see one with G-M201 in the McWilliams project and only three in the Cummings project so they wouldn't be the dominant haplogroup in either project. Either way, you can't really predict your haplogroup from looking at the FTDNA results of other people. Most Irish people end up being R-M269 so that would be a safe enough prediction for someone with Irish ancestry but that's not very meaningful by itself. There are different origins for the same surname and this is shown in the surname projects. There are 9 different groups currently in the McWilliams project and I think 36 in the Cummings project. As well as all the different origins for the surname, there's also the chance of an NPE that could prevent you matching people of the same surname.
    Ancestry: Ireland (Roscommon, Galway, Mayo)
    Paternal ancestor (Y): Martin Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (U Maine/Hy Many)
    Father's mtDNA: Catherine Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon (H27e)
    Maternal ancestor (mt): Anne McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    Paternal great grandfather (mt): Mary Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)

  6. #55
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    That's true. It's for Cummins, it's just something I was interested in to see if I could find anything notable.

    This is my predicted haplogroup:


    Not sure if its the top one or the bottom one, but I don't see any M529's in the Cummins group. I wouldn't be surprised that my surname is an NPE, I actually have a theory that it is just because we're unconnected to the Irish Cummins and Cummins isn't a British name,
    Last edited by Nqp15hhu; 01-09-2019 at 11:39 PM.

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nqp15hhu View Post
    That's true. It's for Cummins, it's just something I was interested in to see if I could find anything notable.

    This is my predicted haplogroup:


    Not sure if its the top one or the bottom one, but I don't see any M529's in the Cummins group. I wouldn't be surprised that my surname is an NPE, I actually have a theory that it is just because we're unconnected to the Irish Cummins and Cummins isn't a British name,
    R-L459 would be a subclade of R-M269. I wouldn't mind no one in the project having R-M529. R-M529 is also known as R-L21 and this is a subclade of R-M269. Most people in the project are only known to be R-M269 which just shows that they haven't done any SNP testing. If you are R-M529, FTDNA will probably just give you a result of R-M269. However, it's the STR matches rather than the haplogroup itself that will likely provide you with the most information about your surname unless you were to do SNP testing.
    Last edited by FionnSneachta; 01-09-2019 at 11:51 PM.
    Ancestry: Ireland (Roscommon, Galway, Mayo)
    Paternal ancestor (Y): Martin Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (U Maine/Hy Many)
    Father's mtDNA: Catherine Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon (H27e)
    Maternal ancestor (mt): Anne McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    Paternal great grandfather (mt): Mary Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)

  8. #57
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    Well it's from my AncestryDNA results, but I was hoping to get some clues because of the wait time.

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacUalraig View Post
    There are alternative and cheaper strategies than that, for example YSEQ have an all-in SNP test for USD159 that will take you from no prior knowledge at all to a fully terminal SNP.

    https://www.yseq.net/product_info.ph...ducts_id=56898

    They also have an all-in R1b-M343 test including sublevels if you fancy a slight gamble, it is pretty safe for a Gaelic surname. But the first test I mention will cover you if you are hg I too (probably about the only other possibility to worry about for Irish names).
    Thanks, Ill have to tell others about these tests. The first test sounds great for finding ones terminal snp even if they have no idea what their haplogroup is!!! And much cheaper than the Big Y! The second one sounds good too.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to fridurich For This Useful Post:

     msmarjoribanks (01-11-2019)

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FionnSneachta View Post
    Thank you, I had forgotten about them. I was only watching a program that mentioned them on Sunday and they were even included in the map on the website that I'd linked in the previous message. Yet, it didn't click with me. They were located around Mayo and Galway. I've attached an even more simplified map of the 1500s which has the Burkes divided into MacWilliam Burke and Burkes of Clanrickard. You're right that the Burkes did marry into Gaelic families giving rise to the phrase of 'more Irish than the Irish themselves'.

    Attachment 28213
    Off topic, but I know the history and of course am familiar with Edmund Burke in particular, but in the US, the name Burke is usually just considered to be Irish Catholic, and seems to be pretty common.

    Not really relevant, but possibly of interest, in current local politics in Chicago, Alderman Ed Burke recently got indicted, after being an alderman forever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_M._Burke. Among many, many other things, he is known for claiming a connection to Edmund Burke and quoting him.

    Burke is now succeeded in the Chicago City Council by my (also problematic) alderman Pat O'Connor, who obviously has some Irish connections in his ancestry.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to msmarjoribanks For This Useful Post:

     FionnSneachta (01-12-2019)

  13. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    Off topic, but I know the history and of course am familiar with Edmund Burke in particular, but in the US, the name Burke is usually just considered to be Irish Catholic, and seems to be pretty common.

    Not really relevant, but possibly of interest, in current local politics in Chicago, Alderman Ed Burke recently got indicted, after being an alderman forever: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_M._Burke. Among many, many other things, he is known for claiming a connection to Edmund Burke and quoting him.

    Burke is now succeeded in the Chicago City Council by my (also problematic) alderman Pat O'Connor, who obviously has some Irish connections in his ancestry.
    Yes, you're right that Burke is a very common surname. It's 16th most common in Ireland. People with the surname would be predominantly Catholic since the surname arrived with the Normans which was before the Reformation and the Plantations.
    Ancestry: Ireland (Roscommon, Galway, Mayo)
    Paternal ancestor (Y): Martin Kelly b. c1830 in Co. Roscommon (U Maine/Hy Many)
    Father's mtDNA: Catherine Fleming b. c1831 in Co. Roscommon (H27e)
    Maternal ancestor (mt): Anne McDermott b. c1814 in Co. Roscommon
    Paternal great grandfather (mt): Mary Connella b. c1798 in Co. Roscommon (T2a1a8)

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to FionnSneachta For This Useful Post:

     msmarjoribanks (01-12-2019)

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