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Thread: Changing the way we think about Cyprus genetically is necessary. Here's why.

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    I should send some Sicilians too if you want to plot them, and then we can get Ashkenazim on there.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Here's the latest PCA (with Sikeliot's North Aegeans and Andrew's Greek Cypriots):

    I wonder what pulls the majority of your Turkish Cypriot samples directly towards the Levant, only a few of them plot -slightly- closer to Eurogenes' Turkish average (which is the average of Cappadocian/east-central Anatolian Turkish individuals, from Behar et al.). We know from the well-documented records of population transfers that those who contributed to the island's gene pool were tribal Turks from Anatolia. Therefore, it doesn't make any sense.

    Turkish Cypriots on average have higher levels of West_Asian, East Eurasian, North_Atlantic, Baltic, South_Asian, Northeast_African and Sub-Saharan ancestry whilst Greek Cypriots have higher levels of East_Med and West_Med ancestry; which can be explained by the Turkish mainland ancestry in the former (except for the elevated Northeast_African and Sub-Saharan). I can provide you the kit numbers of my Turkish Cypriot samples (n=45). Can you remake the PCA with them?

    Table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    https://abload.de/img/cyprus2acuj.png
    Last edited by Alkaevli; 01-07-2019 at 05:58 PM.

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkaevli View Post
    I wonder what pulls the majority of your Turkish Cypriot samples directly towards the Levant, only a few of them plot -slightly- closer to Eurogenes' Turkish average (which is the average of Cappadocian/east-central Anatolian Turkish individuals, from Behar et al.). We know from the well-documented records of population transfers that those who contributed to the island's gene pool were tribal Turks from Anatolia. Therefore, it doesn't make any sense.
    I actually think they are mostly pulled towards the Turkish average. In fact, 17 of them show clear pull towards Turks, while only 5 show clear pull towards the Levant, 2 show some slight pull towards North African, 2 show dramatic pull towards North Africans, and the rest cluster with Greek Cypriots and show a drift towards Aegean Greeks:



    I do believe though, that the overall average between Turkish and Greek Cypriots, cause the average Cyprian to be closer to the Levant, because both the Eastern pull from Turkish drift and the slightly southern pull from North African and Levantine drifted Turkish Cypriots.

    However I have no doubt, should there be no Greek Cypriots, and only Turkish Cypriots average, it'll be plotted closer to Turkish rather than Levant.


    Turkish Cypriots on average have higher levels of West_Asian, East Eurasian, North_Atlantic, Baltic, South_Asian and Sub-Saharan ancestry whilst Greek Cypriots have higher levels of East_Med and West_Med ancestry; which can be explained by the Turkish mainland ancestry in the former (except for the elevated Sub-Saharan). I can provide you the kit numbers of my Turkish Cypriot samples (n=45). Can you remake the PCA with them?

    Table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    Gladly I'll be more than happy re-draw this PCA with your data as I find it extremely credible.
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  7. #104
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    Thanks again for plotting these Erik and for your comments and explanations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Yeah here's you and your family in a clean PCA:

    After reading your comment, and taking another look at the PCA and Alkaevli's findings, plus the fact that the Cypriot average in Global25 is a mix of Greek and Turkish Cypriots, I actually believe the "Cyprian" average in the K15 PCA is also an average of both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots - I think as there are 9 academic samples circulating the Anthrofora for several years now which are also a mix of Greek and Turkish Cypriots, that the average for Greek Cypriots should be actually even further away from the Levant than what we're used to - I would say it would plot like this:



    Basically, I now believe most of the Levantine-pull we see in Cypriots is actually the result of the above.

    What do you think?
    There is no evidence that these Medieval Levantine Christian populations in Cyprus were somehow wiped out by the Ottomans. Some would undoubtedly have chosen to leave the country if they had the resources. But many would have been absorbed by the new Turkish community of the island (and indeed the Greek community) via conversion. Nicholas Koureas work, an expert on Medieval Cyprus, shows that some of the Cypriots who settled in Rhodes under the Hospitallers had Syrian rather than Greek names. There is no doubt that there was a significant 'Syrian' presence on the island in the Middle Ages.

    We are not really talking about an enforced conversion in the strict sense, but about socially motivated conversions. There must have been some forced conversions after the conquest, especially if Maronites were seen by the Ottomans as part of the previous ruling clique. However, if indeed there had been forced conversions of the Maronite community on a mass scale in those early years after 1571, the Vatican and Venetian historical archives would have contained something. I've not seen anything come to light so far.

    Greeks too undoubtedly converted to Islam from 1571, and there is considerable evidence for this. A process which we know took place in Anatolia too. At times of social unrest, this could have been forced. But on the whole it was again for social reasons. The Greek element in the newly emerging Cypriot Muslim community would also have contained the pre-existing Phoenician admixture.

    We also, as I have said before, have the addition of Muslim administrators and Ottoman troops stationed on the island, which would have added something, at least uniparentally, to the Turkish Cypriots. With Greek Cypriots, this element can only really have entered the gene pool through non-consensual sexual encounters. This is where uniparentals can tell us much about the differences between the two communities.

    Add to this the significant Turkic tribes element, and I think this explains the noticeable shift of the Turkish Cypriots. Erik's PCA shows a drift both towards Anatolia (which Greek Cypriots don't have) and a drift towards the Levant. Both these factors can be explained historically, and are in keeping with the findings and PCAs of both Alkaevli and Erik.

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    Few observations from preliminary going through Alkaevli's kits, Andewid's kits, my own kits and the 10 academic kits:

    Overall these are 45 Turkish Cypriots, 25 Greek Cypriots and 10 unknown ethnicity Cypriots.

    Virtually all Turkish Cypriots have 4 things that strike them as unique when compare with Greek Cypriots, when running them through Eurogenes K15:

    Eastern_Euro:
    Greek Cypriots have practically none, average is 0.57 (and that to is a result of one single sample that has 3.2 while the rest have either 0 or very close to 0).
    Turkish Cypriots have an average of 2.01.

    East_Med:
    Greek Cypriots have an average of ~39.
    Turkish Cypriots have an average of ~34.

    South_Asian and Siberian:
    In Greek Cypriots these are 0.4 and 0.11 respectively.
    In Turkish Cypriots these are 1.59 and 1.03 respectively. Coupled with a 0.93 Southeast_Asian Turkish Cypriots seem to have 3.5% East Asian-like ancestry, compare to ~0.5% for Greek Cypriots.

    Northeast_African and Sub-Saharan:
    In Greek Cypriots these two are 0.68 and 0.01 - practically nothing.
    In Turkish Cypriots these are 1.98 and 0.97 - overall ~3% African-derived ancestry.

    If I can summarize, it seems like Turkish Cypriots have East European, East Asian and African admixtures which don't exist in any significant way in Greek Cypriots. They are also slightly less East_Med than Greek Cypriots.

    Now as for the 10 academic samples - at first glance, they seem to fit Greek Cypriots by their results - no noticable African, East Asian or East European components in their Eurogenes K15 results. However - their East_Med component is extremely elevated - average of ~50 - much more than any Greek or Turkish Cypriots I've ever seen.

    My belief is that there was either an error in their processing when they were uploaded to GEDmatch or a problem with the raw files themselves, as this East_Med shift seem to also be reflected in the Global25 Cypriot samples by causing the Cypriots to look much more Levantine than they really are.

    Another much more unlikely situation is that only Cypriot Maronites were sampled - which I assume would indeed show higher East_Med values - but I find this really unlikely.

    I've also in the mean time plotted the averages of Turkish Cypriots based on the 45 Turkish Cypriots from Alkaevli.

    And indeed, it seems to be shifted towards Turkish and Levant:

    Last edited by Erikl86; 01-08-2019 at 02:03 PM.
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  11. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    Few observations from preliminary going through Alkaevli's kits, Andewid's kits, my own kits and the 10 academic kits:

    Overall these are 45 Turkish Cypriots, 25 Greek Cypriots and 10 unknown ethnicity Cypriots.

    Virtually all Turkish Cypriots have 4 things that strike them as unique when compare with Greek Cypriots, when running them through Eurogenes K15:

    Eastern_Euro:
    Greek Cypriots have practically none, average is 0.57 (and that to is a result of one single sample that has 3.2 while the rest have either 0 or very close to 0).
    Turkish Cypriots have an average of 2.01.

    East_Med:
    Greek Cypriots have an average of ~39.
    Turkish Cypriots have an average of ~34.

    South_Asian and Siberian:
    In Greek Cypriots these are 0.4 and 0.11 respectively.
    In Turkish Cypriots these are 1.59 and 1.03 respectively. Coupled with a 0.93 Southeast_Asian Turkish Cypriots seem to have 3.5% East Asian-like ancestry, compare to ~0.5% for Greek Cypriots.

    Northeast_African and Sub-Saharan:
    In Greek Cypriots these two are 0.68 and 0.01 - practically nothing.
    In Turkish Cypriots these are 1.98 and 0.97 - overall ~3% African-derived ancestry.

    If I can summarize, it seems like Turkish Cypriots have East European, East Asian and African admixtures which don't exist in any significant way in Greek Cypriots. They are also slightly less East_Med than Greek Cypriots.

    Now as for the 10 academic samples - at first glance, they seem to fit Greek Cypriots by their results - no noticable African, East Asian or East European components in their Eurogenes K15 results. However - their East_Med component is extremely elevated - average of ~50 - much more than any Greek or Turkish Cypriots I've ever seen.

    My belief is that there was either an error in their processing when they were uploaded to GEDmatch or a problem with the raw files themselves, as this East_Med shift seem to also be reflected in the Global25 Cypriot samples by causing the Cypriots to look much more Levantine than they really are.

    Another much more unlikely situation is that only Cypriot Maronites were sampled - which I assume would indeed show higher East_Med values - but I find this really unlikely.

    I've also in the mean time plotted the averages of Turkish Cypriots based on the 45 Turkish Cypriots from Alkaevli.

    And indeed, it seems to be shifted towards Turkish and Levant:

    Thank you for this thought provoking analysis.

    I'm beginning to concur with you that there has been a technical error with such a high degree of East Med in the academic Cypriot samples. The chances of only Maronites being chosen (given how small a community they are) is extremely low. Which leaves us with an error at the programming stage.

    The elevated East Europe, South Asia, Turkic, Levantine and Sub-saharan in Turkish Cypriots can be explained again historically. The sub-Saharan, Turkic and Levantine elements, we've already discussed. With Eastern Europe, I mentioned in a previous post that the island would have had countless arrivals over the centuries, beyond classic models of colonisation. The Muslim administration would sometimes undoubtedly have been filled with individuals from the Balkans- both Muslim Slavs and Albanians. In addition to this, the troops stationed on the island were often Janissaries- Christian children, often taken from the Balkans, and raised as Muslims. The Janissaries were not finally disbanded until the Ottoman military modernisation after 1826. The Albanian rebel, Skanderbeg, was himself of Janissary origin. If these are indeed routes for eastern European admixture to enter the Turkish Cypriot gene pool, uniparental markers should indicate something.

    In relation to South Asia, the island has for centuries been the home of a small, though significant, Romany community. Cypriots often speak of a Cypriot Greek, Turkish, Maronite, Armenian or Latin community. But Romanies are the forgotten 6th element. In some parts of the Balkans, Romany communities chose Islam, whilst in other Balkan areas they chose Christianity. In Cyprus, the Romany community almost uinversally adopted Islam. When the separation of the communities occurred after the Turkish invasion of 1974, the Muslim Romany community that lived in the south chose to move north. If a small amount of South Asia admixture has entered the Turkish Cypriot gene pool, this seems to be the most likely route.
    Last edited by Andrewid; 01-08-2019 at 02:59 PM.

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    I think the issue with how we interpret Cypriots on these plots also is that we are assuming "Cypriot" = Greek Cypriot, even if it is in reality a composite group. We should really have a separate Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot cluster on every calculator and PCA plot and then we will really see how Greek Cypriots are just the extreme end of the Sicilian/Dodecanese/Calabrian cluster and aren't Levantines.

    For the longest time I did think they were "Hellenized Levantines" but it is just not the case.

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    Does anyone have a dodecad k12b average of Turkish Cypriots?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    I think the issue with how we interpret Cypriots on these plots also is that we are assuming "Cypriot" = Greek Cypriot, even if it is in reality a composite group. We should really have a separate Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot cluster on every calculator and PCA plot and then we will really see how Greek Cypriots are just the extreme end of the Sicilian/Dodecanese/Calabrian cluster and aren't Levantines.

    For the longest time I did think they were "Hellenized Levantines" but it is just not the case.
    I have never actually believed this.

    It would not have been borne out historically, quite apart from what we are seeing genetically. Don't forget that Mycenaean Greeks started coming to the island in great numbers from at least 1200 BCE. They were drawn to Cyprus for two main reasons- raw materials (in this case copper, the known world's main supplier), and the Doric upheavals, taking place in Greece proper. Greeks only started to settle in the Magna Graecia from about 800 BCE- so the Cypriot settlements predate the southern Italian ones by about 400-500 years. The initial Greek settlement in Cyprus is accordingly of an earlier nature than those coming out of Classical Greece, which is why 'colonisation', in the strict sense we mean it in Southern Italy, doesn't apply to Cyprus. It's older and doesn't immediately apply to the emerging Greek City states.

    Whilst Greece proper was going through it's dark ages from 1200 BCE, Greek letters thrived in Cyprus, where the Cypriot syllabary was used to write Greek. The language brought to the island tells us where this mass of early Greek settlers came from. It was Arcadian from the Peloponnese and soon firmly established itself to the extent that the whole dialect group became known as Arcado-Cypriot. Because of the Doric invasions in continental Greece, this dialect became confined to the isolated mountainous centre of the Peloponnese, as well as to Cyprus. By the 5th century BCE, the Cypriot variety of Greek was the closest surviving remnant of the Mycenaean Greek language.

    The original Cypriot inhabitants we know little about, and Eteocypriot has yet to be deciphered. But there is a high probability that it is close to one of the ancient Indo-European languages of Anatolia. These inhabitants were probably genetically related to the Minoans, as well as to Anatolians.

    The Phoenicians started arriving in Cyprus from about the 9th century BCE. They settled in places like the semi-deserted Mycenaean settlement of Kition. There is strong evidence that Greeks, Phoenicians and even Jews co-existed in the town. But the majority of Greek city kingdoms remained Greek-speaking. Cyprus was undoubtedly the theatre for cultural exchange between Greeks and Phoenicians and aspects of Phoenician culture such as Astarte (Aphrodite) entered the Greek socioreligious milieu. Some scholars even contend that the Greek alphabet, as we know it today, was first emulated by Greek scribes in Cyprus from the Phoenician template.

    Where many get confused by ancient Cypriot history is the inability to separate suzerainty and the situation on the ground. Whilst there were long periods of so-called Egyptian, Persian and Assyrian 'rule' during the period of the Cypriot city kingdoms, there was also the highest degree of local political and cultural autonomy. Given Cyprus' strategic location, the regional powers did not want Cyprus to be used against their geostrategic interests but were content to leave Cypriots to their own devices internally, as long as they remained loyal. Unfortunately, geneticists such as Razib Khan, look at the historical chapter headings and assume that Cyprus was somehow de-Hellenized by the time the Romans arrived. Factoids are easy to create but much more difficult to demolish.

    What is also certain is that the Phoenicians were themselves eventually Hellenized by the overwhelming strength of Greek culture already existing on the island. It was perhaps Evagoras of Salamis who was most responsible for halting Phoenician military and cultural expansion throughout the island. From the time of Hellenistic and Ptolemaic control (which abolished the various Cypriot kingdoms), the Hellenization process was completed. Zeno of Kition born in 334 BCE, over 20 years after the arrival of Ptolemy's army, and of Phoenician descent, is an example of that completed Hellenization process.

    Hellenism in Cyprus was reinforced by the subsequent Roman and Byzantine periods. It was also a refuge for Greek refugees during the Byzantine period. Cyprus was never fully under Arab control (like Crete and Sicily) and enjoyed a kind of neutral status. It would have been a safe haven also for Greeks fleeing Slav invasions.

    So once again history gives us some answers, complimenting genetic analysis
    Last edited by Andrewid; 01-09-2019 at 01:22 PM.

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  18. #110
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    Phew that was a long work processing all these kits and on a work week... but finally finished plotting the entire 70 Cypriot kits - 25 certified Greek Cypriots + 45 certified Turkish Cypriots.

    I've plotted them on a fresh plot, and provided new averages for them as well:



    I must say that the number of verified Greek Cypriots I have is lower than the original amount which was plotted on the base PCA Sikeliot gave me - around 45 vs. 25 - almost double. But, the trend is already visible in this case - the new Greek Cypriot average from the samples I got (in blue square) is shifted slightly towards Aegean Greeks, with very few outlying which plot like Turkish Cypriots. On the other hand, the new Turkish Cypriot (red square) is dramatically shifted towards Turks and also closer to Levantines - and as can be seen, several samples overlap with Lebanese and Druze, corroborating the historical narrative described here by Andrew. My assumption that the overall drift of Turkish Cypriots towards Turkish shown in Sikeliot's base PCA, is confirmed with Alkaevli's samples, which IMO are more valid as I actually know where they are from (and as I say many times here, big FTDNA projects' collected samples are just as reliable as academic studies in my humble opinion).

    I should note that for the previous PCA, I reverse-engineered the Greek Cypriot average by retrieving the coordinates (manually) from each plotted sample - then calculating the average values and plotting it. In this new PCA, I've directly calculated the Eurogenes K15 average of all 25 GC (and 45 TC) samples and then used this site:
    http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

    To calculate the X,Y coordinates of the averages. I don't know which average calculation is more accurate, but given these are different samples and of different amount, it's kind of comparing apples and oranges here - I really wish I had at least as much GC samples as we now have TC samples (thanks to Alkaevli).

    I must say this K15 PCA, given it plots basically the entire K15 spreadsheet, which covers a wide range of populations, show that Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots should be separated in other projects to two different populations. Very close - evident by the fact that there are overlaps between them - but evidently the distance between their averages is big enough to justify separation in important projects such as Global25, for example.
    Last edited by Erikl86; 01-09-2019 at 09:41 PM.
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