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Thread: I wonder whether there's a way for estimating nMonte for an untested parent

  1. #1
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    I wonder whether there's a way for estimating nMonte for an untested parent

    I used my modern results for the 0-1000 BCE calculator. I tried a simple method of doubling my total to get a combined parental total then subtracting the tested parent to get a total for the untested parent.


    [1] "distance%=0.7864"


    firemonkey


    Irish,25.2
    English,23.4
    Scottish,19
    Orcadian,15.4
    Icelandic,4.6
    Norwegian,3.4
    Dutch,2.8
    Swedish,2.2
    English_Cornwall,1
    German,1
    French,0.6
    Welsh,0.6
    Finnish,0.2
    Finnish_East,0.2
    Ingrian,0.2
    Yemenite_Jew,0.2


    [1] "distance%=1.3141"


    firemonkey_father


    English,31.8
    Scottish,25.6
    English_Cornwall,10
    Irish,7
    German,5.2
    Dutch,4.6
    Swedish,4.2
    Orcadian,4
    Icelandic,3.4
    Belgian,1.8
    French,1.6
    Spanish_Pais_Vasco,0.4
    French_South,0.2
    Norwegian,0.2


    Mother

    Irish 43.4
    English 15.0
    Scottish 12.4
    Orcadian 26.8
    Icelandic 5.8
    Dutch 1.0
    Norwegian 6.6
    Swedish 0.2

    Well that blows that out of the water as that comes to 111. 2 %
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  3. #2
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    The user DMXX has the ability to calculate your missing parents coordinates based on your own and your one tested parent coordinates/positions on the Global 25. You might want to get in touch with him and see what he can do for you.

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  5. #3
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    R1b>L513>A7> BY11186
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    Very interesting topic!
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    32% English, 28% Scottish, 20% Welsh, 16% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

  6. #4
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    The reason you get greater than 100% is because you left out the samples that were negative. Your dad has English_Cornwall 10%, you have English_Cornwall 1%, so you gave 0% to your mother instead of -9%. In other words, this method cannot work.

    What you should try is take the PCA coordinates, P1 to P25 for you and your dad, and calculate a new set of coordinates for your mother for P1 to P25 so that you are the average of both. [YOU] x 2-[DAD] for P1 to P25. Then run this calculated set on the modern samples.
    Last edited by Garvan; 01-06-2019 at 05:38 AM. Reason: Checking numbers - corrected mistype

  7. #5
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    I can see your point about my method. I'm not so sure about your method , but that may only be because I'm a dunce in such matters .

    Here are the unscaled.

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Tim_G,0.0114,0.0129,0.0172,0.0146,0.0141,0.0069,0. 0011,0.0013,0.0034,-0.0003,-0.0016,0.0034,-0.007,-0.0081,0.0205,0.0048,-0.0163,0.0046,0.0015,0.0014,0.0035,0.0015,-0.0018,0.0071,-0.0026


    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Tim_G_father,0.0121,0.0137,0.016,0.0122,0.0143,0.0 062,0.0022,0.005,0.0038,-0.0007,-0.0018,0.0031,-0.0068,-0.0029,0.022,0.0013,-0.0162,0.0043,0.002,0.0056,0.0074,0.0031,-0.0033,0.0065,-0.0014


    Here are the scaled.


    Tim_G_scaled,0.129758,0.131003,0.064865,0.047158,0 .043393,0.019243,0.002585,0.003,0.006954,-0.000547,-0.002598,0.005095,-0.010406,-0.011147,0.027823,0.006364,-0.021253,0.005828,0.001885,0.001751,0.004367,0.001 855,-0.002218,0.008555,-0.003113

    Tim_G_father_scaled,0.137726,0.139128,0.060339,0.0 39406,0.044008,0.017291,0.00517,0.011538,0.007772,-0.001276,-0.002923,0.004646,-0.010109,-0.003991,0.029858,0.001724,-0.021122,0.005448,0.002514,0.007003,0.009234,0.003 833,-0.004067,0.007832,-0.001676


    I tried doing my mother's scaled but gave up as i got stumped when there was 2 minuses ie -0.001094 for me x2 and -0.001276 for my dad and it gave a plus number.
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    Try these:

    Code:
    Tim_Mother_test,0.0107,0.0121,0.0184,0.017,0.0139,0.0076,0,-0.0024,0.003,0.0001,-0.0014,0.0037,-0.0072,-0.0133,0.019,0.0083,-0.0164,0.0049,0.001,-0.0028,-0.0004,0,-0.0003,0.0077,-0.0038
    
    Tim_Mother_test_Scaled,0.12179,0.122878,0.069391,0.05491,0.042778,0.021195,0,-0.005538,0.006136,0.000182,-0.002273,0.005544,-0.010703,-0.018303,0.025788,0.011004,-0.021384,0.006208,0.001256,-0.003501,-0.0005,-0.000123,-0.000369,0.009278,-0.00455

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  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvan View Post
    Try these:

    Code:
    Tim_Mother_test,0.0107,0.0121,0.0184,0.017,0.0139,0.0076,0,-0.0024,0.003,0.0001,-0.0014,0.0037,-0.0072,-0.0133,0.019,0.0083,-0.0164,0.0049,0.001,-0.0028,-0.0004,0,-0.0003,0.0077,-0.0038
    
    Tim_Mother_test_Scaled,0.12179,0.122878,0.069391,0.05491,0.042778,0.021195,0,-0.005538,0.006136,0.000182,-0.002273,0.005544,-0.010703,-0.018303,0.025788,0.011004,-0.021384,0.006208,0.001256,-0.003501,-0.0005,-0.000123,-0.000369,0.009278,-0.00455


    Thanks I've tried pen= default web runner scaled


    1 English +Irish +Norwegian +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.1294 10.8 35.2 20.6 2.8 30.6


    English +Irish +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.1574 10.6 38.8 10.8 39.8

    1 English +Icelandic +Irish +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.1532 11.8 6.2 38.6 7.6 35.8


    I put Finnish in just out of curiosity and was surprised. 1 English +Finnish +Irish +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.0612 19.2 6.6 43.4 2.2 28.6

    Finnish +Irish +Norwegian +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.0977 5.6 46.6 11.2 8 28.6

    Finnish +Icelandic +Irish +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.1009 6.4 5.4 44.2 9.4 34.6


    Irish +Norwegian +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.1378 36.8 21.6 7.2 34.4


    Finnish +Irish +Orcadian +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.1112 6.4 46 11.4 36.2


    Now Saami just out of curiosity English +Irish +Orcadian +Saami +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 1.9603 21.2 48.6 2 4.8 23.4


    Irish +Norwegian +Orcadian +Saami +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.0504 43.4 12.6 10.8 2.8 30.4

    Irish +Orcadian +Saami +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.0287 49 14.2 4.6 32.2

    Icelandic +Irish +Orcadian +Saami +Scottish Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.0132 8 47.6 12.8 4.2 27.4



    I'm not sure the Finnish or Saami makes much sense . Could it be real or revealing a flaw with trying to estimate for an untested parent?
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  12. #8
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    Further to the Finnish/Saami using the scaled with default

    Euro only K7


    Central-Euro_K7 +Channel-North-Sea_K7 +NE-Euro_K7 +North-Atlantic_K7 +South-Atlantic_K7 +South-Euro_K7 +Uralic_K7 Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.4587 0 0 0 94.4 0 0 5.6


    Modern Europe K16

    Model Sample Details Fit Albanian Greek K18 Ashkenazi Jewish K18 Basque K18 Bosnian Montenegrin Serbian Romanian Bulgarian K18 Estonian Latvian Lithuanian K18 Finnish K18 French Belgian K18 German Czech Austrian K18 Irish Scottish Welsh K18 Italian North Central K18 Italian South And Sicilian K18 Norwegian Swedish K18 Polish Belarusian Ukrainian K18 Portuguese Spanish K18 Saami K18 Sardinian K18
    1 Albanian_Greek_K18 +Ashkenazi_Jewish_K18 +Basque_K18 +Bosnian_Montenegrin_Serbian_Romanian_Bulgarian_K1 8 +Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian_K18 +Finnish_K18 +French_Belgian_K18 +German_Czech_Austrian_K18 +Irish_Scottish_Welsh_K18 +Italian_North_Central_K18 +Italian_South_and_Sicilian_K18 +Norwegian_Swedish_K18 +Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian_K18 +Portuguese_Spanish_K18 +Saami_K18 +Sardinian_K18 Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.0925 0 0 0 0 0.2 4 0.4 2.4 79 0 0 13.8 0 0 0.2 0


    Modern Northern Europe K7

    Model Sample Details Fit Estonian Latvian Lithuanian K7 Finnish K7 French Belgian K7 German Czech Austrian K7 Irish Scottish Welsh K7 Norwegian Swedish K7 Polish Belarusian Ukrainian K7
    1 Estonian_Latvian_Lithuanian_K7 +Finnish_K7 +French_Belgian_K7 +German_Czech_Austrian_K7 +Irish_Scottish_Welsh_K7 +Norwegian_Swedish_K7 +Polish_Belarusian_Ukrainian_K7 Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.0935 0.2 5.2 0.8 2.2 78 13.6 0


    Michal K35

    Abyssinian +African +Amerindian +Andamanese +Arabic +Assyrian +Balkan +Balochistani +Balto_Slavic +Bengali +Beringian +Central_European +East_Asian +Eskimoic +Finnic +Inuit +Levantine +Nepalese +North_African +North_Caucasian +North_Central_Asian +North_West_European +North_West_Indian +Papuan +Siberian +South_Caucasian +South_Central_Asian +South_East_European +South_Indian +South_West_European +Turkic_Mongolic +Turkish_Persian +Uralic +Volgan +West_European Custom:Tim_Mother_test_Scaled 2.9066 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.6 0 0 0 0 0 0 95 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.4 0
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  13. #9
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    My guess is your mother is Scottish, she has the same pattern of admixture components as other Scottish samples in G25.

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    As a contrast the unscaled coordinates for custom calculators and webrunner are picking up almost no Finnish/Saami also using 1000/500 default.


    However the 1000 BCE calculator pen=0

    Scaled SOUTH-SIBERIAN 6.6
    Unscaled SOUTH-SIBERIAN 10.4

    I've mentioned South Siberian but I'm not sure it's relevant.


    Perhaps some bright spark could pick the bones out of all this. Maybe it says something about estimating for an untested parent or maybe it doesn't.
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