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Thread: Aryan vs Dravidians - A Myth by Dr. Dr. Subramanian Swamy

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    So the population that brought steppe to them probably brought to us as well, and carried this clad. Could it be Siberian in orogin?
    Possible.
    But the only point I feel reasonably confident about is that Z93 originated somewhere in the steppe region where Khazars later came to rule. Classically known as Asiatic Sarmatia.



    Last edited by parasar; 01-09-2019 at 01:20 AM.

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  3. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    I dont think we can conclude this using just Midis results

    DMXX any thoughts?
    The Narasimhan paper did show there was some extra admixture from an ASI-rich source into Pakistan, most likely from somewhere towards the Subcontinent. Whether or not that was nearby (Punjab) or somewhere deeper towards the Ganges is speculative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    The cline is huge. One end of the cline is distinct another the other end imo. So, I think of them as distinct peoples. If the cline/cluster was less heterogeneous, I'd be 100% on board. Just can't justify calling that massive blob's edges not be distinct.
    I agree, distinct peoples should apply to everyone on the cline regardless of geography in that case

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  6. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    I did a very basic SSO vs BA3 comparison, nothing fancy:



    Fair enough, it improves the fit for everyone - is there a pop it doesnt improve the fit for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    I don't think anyone here has stated that agent_lime or myself are not on the cline. The point is that the cline is vast and very heterogeneous in terms of proportions of ancestry. Because of that, we're significantly closer to some populations west of the Indus who do not speak Indo-Aryan languages and are not traditionally considered South Asians than we are to the majority of South Asians outside the NW and significantly so. You want to draw the line at "Western Iran" ancestry to the West but that ancestry isn't that significant even in Northern Pakistani Pashtuns or even many Eastern Afghans from areas near N2KL. Ditto for Kalash, Nuristani, Kohistani, Burusho, etc. All of which are more commonly considered South Central Asians. This "Western Iran" ancestry becomes more prominent in individuals from areas such Kandahar like surbhakhun.
    Ive already stated those groups seem to be part of the broader cline based on NW users similarity to them

    Also to note that AASI/HG ancestry seems to drop quite precipitously outside and sometimes inside the area youve mentioned

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Ive already stated those groups seem to be part of the broader cline based on NW users similarity to them

    Also to note that AASI/HG ancestry seems to drop quite precipitously outside and sometimes inside the area youve mentioned
    If that's the case, should we start referring to these distinct East Iranic/Northern Dardic groups as South Asian rather than South Central Asians then? They also cline with individuals such as surbhakhun and some Tajiks. Other than for some of the Kalash/Nuristani, AASI/HG ancestry forms a smooth continuum with the Yusufzai, Uthmankhel, Tarkalani, Kohistani, etc. Ditto for the Burusho (other than the extra East Asian they score).
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Fair enough, it improves the fit for everyone - is there a pop it doesnt improve the fit for?
    yes using BA3 improved fit very slightly for high Iran N samples like Gujars and Nai, but its very small difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    If that's the case, should we start referring to these distinct East Iranic/Northern Dardic groups as South Asian rather than South Central Asians then? They also cline with individuals such as surbhakhun and some Tajiks. Other than for some of the Kalash/Nuristani, AASI/HG ancestry forms a smooth continuum with the Yusufzai, Uthmankhel, Tarkalani, Kohistani, etc. Ditto for the Burusho (other than the extra East Asian they score).
    Arent Dardic languages considered the closest language family to proto-Indo-Aryan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Arent Dardic languages considered the closest language family to proto-Indo-Aryan?
    I'm not sure but that may be the case. Regardless, Kalash are very distinct genetically from the vast majority of South Asians. Same for their Nuristani cousins to the West. Both are genetically much closer to their neighboring East Iranic Pashtuns than they are to Dardic speaking Kashmiris.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapporo View Post
    I'm not sure but that may be the case. Regardless, Kalash are very distinct genetically from the vast majority of South Asians. Same for their Nuristani cousins to the West. Both are genetically much closer to their neighboring East Iranic Pashtuns than they are to Dardic speaking Kashmiris.
    Kashmiris would form one branch from proto-Dard but wouldn't be the the only representative of them

    From what I understand Kashmiris score similar to Northern Punjabis based on Rahuls results

    Dardic language distribution, seems to match the Indo-Aryan diffusion into South Asia from SC Asia and the geography of the groups you mention who seem part of the broader cline:

    Kashmiri/Koshur (Standard Kashmiri/Kashur, Kashtawari/Kishtwari, Poguli, Rambani)
    Shina languages: Brokskad (the Shina of Baltistan and Ladakh), Domaaki, Kundal Shahi, Shina, Ushojo, and Kalkoti, Palula, Savi
    Chitral languages: Kalasha and Khowar
    Kohistani languages: Bateri, Chilisso, Gowro, Kalami, Maiya (Indus Kohistani), Tirahi, Torwali, and Wotapuri-Katarqalai
    Pashayi
    Kunar languages: Dameli, Gawar-Bati, Nangalami (includes Grangali), and Shumashti

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