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Thread: Aryan vs Dravidians - A Myth by Dr. Dr. Subramanian Swamy

  1. #131
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    ....his family venerates Vishnu, and their family guardian is Durga. My grandma was casteist and concerned with keeping up appearances. She was unhappy with my dad's marriage. IDK whether it was truly rooted in a caste pecking order or whether her bipolar disorder was a complicating factor. At any rate, I don't have other coastal brahmin G25 data....

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  3. #132
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    This is the Panchala kingdom.


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  5. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun R View Post
    ....his family venerates Vishnu, and their family guardian is Durga. My grandma was casteist and concerned with keeping up appearances. She was unhappy with my dad's marriage. IDK whether it was truly rooted in a caste pecking order or whether her bipolar disorder was a complicating factor. At any rate, I don't have other coastal brahmin G25 data....
    Fascinating. Did your dad took a test too? I'd love to see his results. Seems like they didn't mix much. Probably very similar to Gujarati brahmins.

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  7. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Using checkfit tool, my closest groups are Gujarato brahmins who are identical to Punjabi brahmins, Gujjars, Kohistanis, Jatts, Kambojs, Yusufzais, few rors and Gujjars. Exactly the region I'm from. Not a single South Indian population shows up in first 100. The one that would maybe pop up in 250 or 500 would be Brahmin from south. If we're using genetics, let's use it properly, not with bias.
    Most of us are on the cline, so by that measure we are not distinct. We have essentially the same set of ancestry that other cline members have - which varies in proportion along the cline. One is just closest to the next member on the cline, who is closer to the next, etc., until you reach the end of the cline on both sides. No one is saying that the extremes of the clines are as close as adjacent points on the cline.

    For South Asia the cline is not only geographical, but overlapped. So in the some locations sharp differences occur within close proximity.

    Some populations such as the Ongee, many Austro Asiatics, and most Tibeto Burmans are indeed off-cline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    ... If using Varun as an example shows me closer to average tamil brahmin, so be it. I'll apply for my Brahmin card, I'm already R1a1a anyway.

    Unlike us though the Tamil Brahmans happen to be predominantly on the parallel Z2124 line - Z2123 mainly. This the type that is all over the steppe, not our line. This distribution has been surprising - where the Tamil Brahmans and northern Indus Pakhtoons, Kalash, etc are predominantly Z2124 and the southern Indus and Gangetic R1a1 are mainly L657. So I think perhaps L657 made it to South Asia bypassing Andronovo.

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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post

    Unlike us though the Tamil Brahmans happen to be predominantly on the parallel Z2124 line - Z2123 mainly. This the type that is all over the steppe, not our line. This distribution has been surprising - where the Tamil Brahmans and northern Indus Pakhtoons, Kalash, etc are predominantly Z2124 and the southern Indus and Gangetic R1a1 are mainly L657. So I think perhaps L657 made it to South Asia bypassing Andronovo.
    the current R1a SNP tree . Key: BEB - Bengali from Bangladesh; GIH - Gujaratai from Houston, Texas; ITU - Indian Telugu from the UK; PJL - Punjabi from Lahore, Pakistan; STU - Sri Lankan Tamil from the UK.




    Z93+ Z94-
    PJL - 1

    Z94+ L657- Z2124- Z96-
    BEB - 2 PJL - 3 GIH - 1

    L657+,Y2+ etc.
    1) Y9 (inc. Y7)
    GIH - 7
    STU - 4
    ITU - 4
    PJL - 8
    BEB - 2

    2) Y4+, Y8+, Y28+ (inc. Y6+)
    GIH - 6
    ITU - 6
    PJL - 2
    STU - 6
    BEB - 5

    Z2125+ (Z2124+ Z2122- Z2123-)
    PJL - 1

    Z2123+ (Z2124+ Z2122-, Z2125-)
    PJL - 2
    STU - 3
    BEB - 1
    ITU - 6
    GIH - 2

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  13. #137
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    Another thing I noticed in khanabadoshi's PCA is that South Asians fall on an arc, with our honorary member, 45000 year old Ust Ishim, close to the center of the arc.
    Last edited by parasar; 01-08-2019 at 06:19 PM. Reason: typo

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  15. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Another thing I notices in khanabadoshi's PCA is that South Asians fall on an arc, with our honorary member, 45000 year old Ust Ishim, close to the center of the arc.
    Davidski said...
    You seemed to have missed the most important points of the article...

    - A single Punjabi from Lahore, northeastern Pakistan, is ancestral for the Z94 mutation, which is just below Z93. All the other individuals are derived for Z94.

    - In comparison, there are only 12 European R1a individuals in the 1000 Genomes sample, and they represent all the major subclades of this haplogroup: R1a-Z283, R1a-Z93 and R1a-L664. Therefore, sampling bias can't be used as an argument for the more diverse result from Europe.

    In other words, the number of mutations under Z94 present in India isn't relevant to the diversity of R1a there. The fact that Z93 (xZ94) is extremely rare and other parallel subclades missing altogether in India, means that R1a has a young age and low diversity there.

    Basically what seems to have happened is that R1a from Afghanistan squeezed into Pakistan and India via the Khyber Pass fairly recently (late Bronze Age or later), because most Indian R1a is a young subset of the R1a diversity found in South Central Asia.
    Y: H-M69 -> H-M82 -> SK1225 -> H-Z5888 -> H-Z5890 -> H-CTS8144 [CTS8144/PF1741/M5498] -> Z34531 (H1a1a4b3b1a8~)
    found 2875 BCE -> Jiroft/IVC Periphery 11459 Shahr-i-Sokte BA2
    mtDNA:U2a1a

    G25 Ancients Dist 1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 88.4 MAR_Taforalt 2.6NPL_Mebrak 5
    VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA 4 Hidden Content

    Lactose Persistence rs3213871 rs4988243 rs4988183 rs3769005 rs2236783
    found -> DA125, Kangju

  16. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Poi can you run this for all South Asian averages and custom ag users (listed separately)?

    Using a proxy for NE Asian so it doesn’t flow into AASI
    Alright, ran all S/SC Asian groups as averaged, also the custom users. I used 2 models -- one with model you requested and another with an additional "LevantN" to capture additional WestAsian that the SC Asian members(and misanthropy lol) need and their fits become a bit tighter.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2144402990

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  18. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipirneni View Post
    Davidski said...
    You seemed to have missed the most important points of the article...

    - A single Punjabi from Lahore, northeastern Pakistan, is ancestral for the Z94 mutation, which is just below Z93. All the other individuals are derived for Z94.

    - In comparison, there are only 12 European R1a individuals in the 1000 Genomes sample, and they represent all the major subclades of this haplogroup: R1a-Z283, R1a-Z93 and R1a-L664. Therefore, sampling bias can't be used as an argument for the more diverse result from Europe.

    In other words, the number of mutations under Z94 present in India isn't relevant to the diversity of R1a there. The fact that Z93 (xZ94) is extremely rare and other parallel subclades missing altogether in India, means that R1a has a young age and low diversity there.

    Basically what seems to have happened is that R1a from Afghanistan squeezed into Pakistan and India via the Khyber Pass fairly recently (late Bronze Age or later), because most Indian R1a is a young subset of the R1a diversity found in South Central Asia.
    South Asians are not well tested. There are perhaps thousands of Z93+ Z94- in South Asia, likely on a handful of different lines. A single Punjabi from Lahore in a small data-set translates to a lot.

    And since when Daviski wrote other Z93+Z94- have come on board, and the British who had been tested heavily, and showed a lots of Z93+ Z94- have essentially been unified by an SNP as I had suspected based on the STRs.
    This line also has an Indian from Madhya Pradesh on separate branch from the Brits.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP5585/

    The above is a different line from the PJL sample who is on parallel branch YP1506.
    Two other samples are on another parallel Y34351 line.

    This is significant as it portends that there are potentially many other Z93 lines in South Asia besides the main Z94 one. Especially noteworthy since there are only 3 SNPs that currently remain at the Z93 level.

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