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Thread: Eurogenes Global 25 Full Moderns Spreadsheet Runs with Gradient Descent Algorithm

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Thank you very much Rand. I'm impressed. In particular, the Finnish percentage of my father is very close to his genealogical part, which puzzles me because I have always been very sceptical about the capacity of this type of tool to quantify the minor ancestries. Curiously, my own Finnish part has disappeared, but at the same time, my east-Siberian has increased considerably (5.95 KET), and I have already seen this phenomenon with other analysis tools. Really interesting. I had thought for a long time that I had to be interested in Machine Learning theories. I really have to.
    I think it all speaks well of the quality of the PCA data that this information is there.

    I have a similar experience as you describe in that my father's Siberian and East Asian combined with my mother's Amerindian adds up to NE Asian to me. I have looked with targeted runs and can see where I inherited substantial admixture from one or the other, but the modeling doesn't necessarily separate the two. Some of the lower-K admixture calculators figure it out and others just combine it all into one category of Siberian, NE Asian, or Polar or something like that.

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  3. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel7312 View Post
    so u mean that 500 panel of AJ david did a while ago and is that method accurate?? if so maybe i could send david other populations from studies maybe build a deeper african and native american database
    Yes, that is the panel. I found that the basic group in the G25 worked for my wife, but didn't match much with my father or father in law even though both of them match Ashkenazi individuals on Gedmatch one-to-one and had admixture similarities in targeted areas. So, I ran some tests on the ~500 in David's released list and noticed that they had a pretty common general PC1/PC2 range, but had some different minor characteristics - one having more Siberian, another more East African, etc. I wondered if the variety would help in modeling with my father and father in law and they worked very well with plausible percentages. Of course, there is a risk that uncalled-for association might occur because of the sheer number of options and it did happen with some of the testers in this thread. So, I guess it has to be used carefully. But, really, we can try models with anyone or any reference. I noticed, for example, on Poi's tool that the user Titane is the closest to my father, closer than any of the references from the spreadsheet or other users (and by quite a bit). I could use him in a model keeping in mind his background and what it represents as part of the ancestry. It would be great from my perspective if there were better represented African and Native Amerind references. My family is most likely to have Eastern/Northeastern North Amerindian admixture, but there aren't good options for that in modeling.
    Last edited by randwulf; 01-11-2019 at 03:59 AM.

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  5. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepslayer View Post
    Curious what this will say about my continental heritage. Thanks in advance!

    Code:
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC12,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC22,PC23,PC24,PC25 
    sheepslay3r,0.0109,0.0133,0.0164,0.0119,0.0134,0.0043,0,0.0013,-0.0002,-0.0003,0.001,0.0061,-0.0086,-0.0138,0.0157,0.0132,0.0091,-0.0013,0.0033,0.0088,0.0009,0.0034,-0.0025,0.009,0.004
    distance%: 0.68

    Dutch 27.72
    French 21.76
    German 15.37
    Irish 10.88
    Welsh 10.54
    Norwegian 9.0
    Mlabri 2.93
    Orcadian 1.57
    Mbuti 0.24

    That is with the full spreadsheet. If you want a run with a restricted list of a few populations, let me know which ones and I can run it, too.

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  7. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magovalle View Post
    Hi there, guy. Can u run mine with my unscaled 25 coordinates? Here we go:

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    MGVM,0.0095,0.0139,0.0103,-0.0024,0.0129,-0.0007,-0.0019,-0.0004,0.0127,0.0149,0.0006,0.0057,-0.0088,-0.0129,0.0101,-0.0046,-0.012,0.0013,-0.0032,-0.0032,0.0064,-0.0011,-0.0017,-0.0043,0.0031

    Thks in advance

    Best regards
    Here are the results with the full spreadsheet:

    distance%: 0.33

    Basque_French 22.55
    Basque_Spanish 17.16
    Spanish_Andalucia 11.56
    Portuguese 10.44
    Spanish_Valencia 9.58
    Scottish 8.8
    Libyan_Jew 6.61
    Egyptian 6.2
    Irish 2.63
    Saharawi 2.53
    Nganassan 1.38
    Italian_Jew 0.56

    Using Ruderico's restricted Iberian model seems to work well:

    distance%: 0.57

    Portuguese 50.79
    Spanish_Valencia 28.3
    Spanish_Andalucia 20.92

    If you have a few populations you want to run for a custom restricted model, let me know.

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  9. #175
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    Hello Randwulf! If you're interested here are my coordinates. I haven't bothered you so far because my overall alternate dimension Scandinavian profile is so well known.

    Nibelung_scaled

    0.127482,0.121864,0.073539,0.052326,0.042469,
    0.018128,0.008695,0.005077,0.009613,-0.007472,
    -0.00406,0.002698,-0.000446,-0.008395,0.015744,
    0.015513,0.00339,0.006081,-0.005154,0.004377,
    0.008485,0.00371,-0.005793,0.012532,0.004431

    Nibelung

    0.0112,0.012,0.0195,0.0162,0.0138,
    0.0065,0.0037,0.0022,0.0047,-0.0041,
    -0.0025,0.0018,-0.0003,-0.0061,0.0116,
    0.0117,0.0026,0.0048,-0.0041,0.0035,
    0.0068,0.003,-0.0047,0.0104,0.0037

    Restricted would involve English, Irish, Finnish, Scottish, North German (also appears as Danish), SSA, and likely North French. In addition my Irish, although SW, has well documented Norwegian influence.
    My 23andMe kit into Eurogenes K36 then oracle (thanks to lukaszM):

    nMonte restricted: Ireland 48.05, SW-England 20.95, Finnish East 20.05, Russian Tver 3.70, Latvian 3.15, Mari 1.90, Lithuanian 1.30, French Basque 0.90, Orcadian 0.00

    nMonte full: Ireland 45.70, Finnish East 20.05, SW-England 20.05, Russian Tver 4.10, Orcadian 3.05, Latvian 2.45, Mari 1.95, Lithuanian 1.45, French Basque 1.00, W-England 0.15, Belarusian East 0.05

    Maternal uncle: R1b-U152

  10. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nibelung View Post
    Hello Randwulf! If you're interested here are my coordinates. I haven't bothered you so far because my overall alternate dimension Scandinavian profile is so well known.

    Nibelung_scaled

    0.127482,0.121864,0.073539,0.052326,0.042469,
    0.018128,0.008695,0.005077,0.009613,-0.007472,
    -0.00406,0.002698,-0.000446,-0.008395,0.015744,
    0.015513,0.00339,0.006081,-0.005154,0.004377,
    0.008485,0.00371,-0.005793,0.012532,0.004431

    Nibelung

    0.0112,0.012,0.0195,0.0162,0.0138,
    0.0065,0.0037,0.0022,0.0047,-0.0041,
    -0.0025,0.0018,-0.0003,-0.0061,0.0116,
    0.0117,0.0026,0.0048,-0.0041,0.0035,
    0.0068,0.003,-0.0047,0.0104,0.0037

    Restricted would involve English, Irish, Finnish, Scottish, North German (also appears as Danish), SSA, and likely North French. In addition my Irish, although SW, has well documented Norwegian influence.
    Full:

    distance%: 0.46

    English_Cornwall 18.92
    Irish 18.22
    Icelandic 17.44
    Karelian 12.11
    Dutch 9.97
    Mari 5.76
    French 4.81
    German 4.75
    Belgian 3.39
    Latvian 3.09
    Ju_hoan_North 0.85
    Mbuti 0.68

    Custom:

    distance%: 0.7

    English 31.05
    Finnish_East 25.78
    German 20.08
    Irish 15.19
    French 7.16
    Mbuti 0.74

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  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf

    .... I think that the French_East reference is covering the French and the German both. If I add the German, it eats the English. Western Euros have quite a bit of overlap and it is hard to really get all of the "flags" in the mix to show up.
    Quote Originally Posted by dchicn View Post
    Precisely right about the German eating the English. It happened to me on every run on Poi's online version.
    Likewise! I’ve been using German_East and French_East as proxies and the numbers make more sense, considering my ancestry.
    Last edited by JMcB; 01-11-2019 at 04:33 AM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  14. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    Full:

    distance%: 0.46

    English_Cornwall 18.92
    Irish 18.22
    Icelandic 17.44
    Karelian 12.11
    Dutch 9.97
    Mari 5.76
    French 4.81
    German 4.75
    Belgian 3.39
    Latvian 3.09
    Ju_hoan_North 0.85
    Mbuti 0.68

    Custom:

    distance%: 0.7

    English 31.05
    Finnish_East 25.78
    German 20.08
    Irish 15.19
    French 7.16
    Mbuti 0.74
    Thanks so much! Very interesting with the full spreadsheet and custom. I didn't expect to get so strong a Uralic result as Karelian + Mari + Ju_hoan_North and then Finnish East, considering my total East Asian from David's K7 is only 0.83 not counting whatever's blended in ANE. My maternal uncle gets 0.66 though and he has no known East Asian so it could be some "obscure" (poorly sampled) Eastern/Northeastern Native American like your mother has, but none of us get any NA anywhere with 23andMe or ftDNA or the data with any third parties. My 0.68 SSA here is consistent with Lukasz' K47 at 0.66 "South African Hunter Gatherer" but David and 23andMe give me 0.33/0.3 and the same for my mother versus 0.75 and 0.9 respectively for her brother. Who knows! I've gotten rather quickly to liking the SSA % in any event because it clearly throws a good number of people off and where it almost certainly comes from, Baltimore's 200 year old free black population, is at the same time uncontroversial. And it's no more than many Iberians as I understand it and some Sicilians have, but I'm this somewhat unnerving Pan-Nordic "creation" many people have trouble processing already.

    Thanks again, Randwulf. I was just reading you on unscaled versus scaled and the penalty matter too. Very helpful.
    My 23andMe kit into Eurogenes K36 then oracle (thanks to lukaszM):

    nMonte restricted: Ireland 48.05, SW-England 20.95, Finnish East 20.05, Russian Tver 3.70, Latvian 3.15, Mari 1.90, Lithuanian 1.30, French Basque 0.90, Orcadian 0.00

    nMonte full: Ireland 45.70, Finnish East 20.05, SW-England 20.05, Russian Tver 4.10, Orcadian 3.05, Latvian 2.45, Mari 1.95, Lithuanian 1.45, French Basque 1.00, W-England 0.15, Belarusian East 0.05

    Maternal uncle: R1b-U152

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  16. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Likewise! I’ve been using German_East and French_East as proxies and the numbers make more sense, considering my ancestry.
    Are you running it on Poi's online G25? Does German_East help distinguish your German component while keeping the English in tact?

  17. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by randwulf View Post
    distance%: 0.68

    Dutch 27.72
    French 21.76
    German 15.37
    Irish 10.88
    Welsh 10.54
    Norwegian 9.0
    Mlabri 2.93
    Orcadian 1.57
    Mbuti 0.24
    Interesting! I appreciate it. There any way you can run it with all the British components removed but Irish? I want the algorithm to use a catch-all British population like Irish to de-muddle the continental stuff.
    Predominantly Appalachian TN/NC, Middle TN, and North GA roots

    Known Ancestry: Irish, German, Swiss
    Speculated Ancestry: Dutch, English

    Y-DNA: J-M172 > M410 > PF5116 > M67 > Z7671 > CTS900 > Y3020 > Y11200 > Z30677 > Z30685 (Y17946)

    Tests Taken: 23andMe, AncestryDNA, FTDNA (Y-37, M67 SNP Pack)

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