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Thread: Bell Beaker Archaeology and Ancient DNA

  1. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterne View Post
    Possibly the strong statement they're making is that Iron Age IE language speakers had the indistinguishable autosomal/y structure from Bronze Age samples and inferring that Iron Age IE speakers would've also been continuous with the Bronze Age. Aren't the La Hoya Iron Agers in Celtic speaking territory though (marginally)?
    according to this map they could be
    Attachment 29205
    Geno2.0NG 51 SEurope 19 WCEurope 13 Scandinavia 5 AsiaMinor 4 EEurope 4 GB&Ireland 3 Arabia myOrigins 52 WCEurope 40 SEEurope 5 BritishIsles 3 WMiddleEast DNA.Land 49 NWEuropean 27 SEuropean 13 MedIslander 11 Sardinian myHeritage 51.8 NWEuropean 33.2 Italian 7.9 Greek&SouthItalian 7.1 Balkan gencove 29 NItaly 19 EMed 15 NBritishIsles 12 SWEurope 10 NCEurope 9 Scandinavia 6 NEEurope K29GenePlaza 54.4 NWEurope 37.6 Greek/Albania 5.6 WAsian 2.4 SWAsia

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  3. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterne View Post
    Possibly the strong statement they're making is that Iron Age IE language speakers had the indistinguishable autosomal/y structure from Bronze Age samples and inferring that Iron Age IE speakers would've also been continuous with the Bronze Age. Aren't the La Hoya Iron Agers in Celtic speaking territory though (marginally)?
    La Hoya is in the Basque Country, but wiki states

    Late Iron Age, with a cultural context that some classify as Celtiberian, shows important changes in urbanization: with paved streets and plazas that form a reticular structure. The wall is also rebuilt on stone. This final period also shows great advancement in the technologies: potter's wheel, elaborated blacksmitting, etc.


    So..possibly, although not the best site to get proper Celtic samples in Iberia
    Last edited by Ruderico; 03-06-2019 at 08:09 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134104>Y168273 Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6157"
    Ruderico

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    Gaelic,26.2
    ITA_Rome_Imperial,8.8
    North_African,8.6
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  5. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterne View Post
    Possibly the strong statement they're making is that Iron Age IE language speakers had the indistinguishable autosomal/y structure from Bronze Age samples and inferring that Iron Age IE speakers would've also been continuous with the Bronze Age. Aren't the La Hoya Iron Agers in Celtic speaking territory though (marginally)?
    You are right. The site is of the Celtic Berones tribe which lived to the north of the Celt-Iberians: http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/inde...viewFile/56/57
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 03-06-2019 at 11:51 PM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  7. #924
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    Since Steppe Bell Beaker and P312 are so intertwined, from today's Iberia paper:

    We comment here on the striking Y-chromosome patterns observed during the Copper
    Age-Bronze Age transition in Iberia. All the Bronze Age males from Iberia with sufficient
    coverage (n=30) belonged to R1b-M269 (R1b1a1a2). Furthermore, all the R1b-M269
    males with sufficient coverage (n=15) could be further classified as R1b-P312
    (R1b1a1a2a1a2). Only one Bronze Age male, esp005.SG (7), had DNA sequences
    overlapping R1b-DF27 (R1b1a1a2a1a2a) and he was positive for the mutation. Two
    Bronze Age males, I6470 and I3997, had DNA sequences overlapping R1b-Z195
    (R1b1a1a2a1a2a1), with I6470 being negative and I3997 positive. Eleven Bronze Age
    males had DNA sequences overlapping R1b-Z225 (R1b1a1a2a1a2a5), with only
    VAD001 being positive for the mutation (one Iron Age male, I3320, is also positive for
    this mutation). We thus detect three Bronze Age males who belonged to DF27 (154, 155),
    confirming its presence in Bronze Age Iberia. The other Iberian Bronze Age males could
    belong to DF27 as well, but the extremely low recovery rate of this SNP in our dataset
    prevented us to study its true distribution. All the Iberian Bronze Age males with
    overlapping sequences at R1b-L21 were negative for this mutation. Therefore, we can
    rule out Britain as a plausible proximate origin since contemporaneous British males are
    derived for the L21 subtype.
    I would also add that they could have added that L21 could not have originated in Iberia given that the L21 clade does produce very good coverage.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  9. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    Since Steppe Bell Beaker and P312 are so intertwined, from today's Iberia paper:



    I would also add that they could have added that L21 could not have originated in Iberia given that the L21 clade does produce very good coverage.
    The utter dominance of R in Greek Empúries is interesting too.

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  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    Since Steppe Bell Beaker and P312 are so intertwined, from today's Iberia paper:
    In case anybody else has trouble finding that, it's Supplementary Information, SI 5 (p. 60 after you download that). Apart from the footnote citing a paper we read two years ago (and disagreed with, at some length), the paragraph quoted here by Rich includes all the other references in the said Supplement to DF27, as such. I hope that the archived samples from the new Bronze Age guys with recent ancestry on the steppe (we used to have 7, now we have 60) can be mined for hints they weren't looking for, such as Alex's ZZ11 (xU152, or xL2 if that's the only way they can see it). Anyway, it's still pretty clearly new blood, starting around 2500 BC or later; the M269 branches didn't arise locally.

    I don't think anybody has quoted this, from the main paper (not the Supplements), so I will:

    From the Bronze Age (~2200–900 BCE), we increase the available dataset (6,7,17) from 7 to 60 individuals and show how ancestry from the Pontic-Caspian steppe (Steppe ancestry) appeared throughout Iberia in this period (Fig. 1, C and D), albeit with less impact in the south (table S13). The earliest evidence is in 14 individuals dated to ~2500–2000 BCE who coexisted with local people without Steppe ancestry (Fig. 2B ). These groups lived in close proximity and admixed to form the Bronze Age population after 2000 BCE with ~40% ancestry from incoming groups (Fig. 2B and fig. S6). Y-chromosome turnover was even more pronounced (Fig. 2B ), as the lineages common in Copper Age Iberia (I2, G2, and H) were almost completely replaced by one lineage, R1b-M269.
    Last edited by razyn; 03-14-2019 at 11:06 PM.

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  13. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    In case anybody else has trouble finding that, it's Supplementary Information, SI 5 (p. 60 after you download that). Apart from the footnote citing a paper we read two years ago (and disagreed with, at some length), the paragraph quoted here by Rich includes all the other references in the said Supplement to DF27, as such. I hope that the archived samples from the new Bronze Age guys with recent ancestry on the steppe (we used to have 7, now we have 60) can be mined for hints they weren't looking for, such as Alex's ZZ11 (xU152, or xL2 if that's the only way they can see it). Anyway, it's still pretty clearly new blood, starting around 2500 BC or later; the M269 branches didn't arise locally.

    I don't think anybody has quoted this, from the main paper (not the Supplements), so I will:
    The BAM files were available for a couple of hours and now they've gone "missing". Hopefully they will be visible again soon.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  15. #928
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    An L21 equivalent sample from the Roman period (I6492), although the sample looks to be of terribly low coverage. Also of interest is the U106+S263+ sample I10895 and dated to 777–981.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  17. #929
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    Earliest evidence of R1b-P312 in Iberia comes from:

    EHU002 UE 450 tooth half 662713 M K1a4a1 R1b1a1a2a1a2(xR1b1a1a2a1a2a5) Yes C_Iberia_CA_Stp C 2562–2306 cal BCE (3933±32 BP, CSIC-1896) El Hundido, Monasterio de Rodilla, Burgos, Castilla y León 42.419214 -3.484745 Spain

    Who can be modeled as per Table-S15:

    EHU002 C_Iberia_CA_Stp 9.30E-01(P-value) 0.371(Iberia_CA) 0.629(Germany_Beaker) 0.049(SE)

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  19. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    The utter dominance of R in Greek Empúries is interesting too.
    Couldn't these be argued as Hellenized Iberians though? Didn't the paper suggest two clusters? One with Iberians and the other with Eastern Mediterranean? I didn't look closely at the data though.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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