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Thread: Why are most east Euros further from MLBA steppe than northern/western/central Euros?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenus View Post
    How much of a contribution are you thinking this population made? When do you think they were absorbed so to speak?
    I'm guessing a fairly substantial contribution, possibly mediated by the Corded Ware sites around the Middle Dneiper and Fatyanovo cultures.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    I'm guessing a fairly substantial contribution, possibly mediated by the Corded Ware sites around the Middle Dneiper and Fatyanovo cultures.
    If this is true than Sintashta is not derived from Middle Dnjepr<Fatyanovo<Abashevo but i don't see another route for Proto-Indo-Iranians into the Ural. The steppe was blocked by Yamnaya Z2103 tribes and only in the Transural region Sintashta tribes started to mix with Poltavka/Yamnaya-derived tribes. They arrived there from the forest steppes in the northwest where the earliest samples were very CWC-like. So i agree with Davidski and qpAdm very much shows that genetic drift played the main role here.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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  5. #33
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    There's no mysterious missing link here, just Balto-Slavic specific drift that skews some of the dimensions in the G25.

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  7. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    There's no mysterious missing link here, just Balto-Slavic specific drift that skews some of the dimensions in the G25.
    $10 lol, won't comment on threads again. This is just silly though, won't say what it is but make the right decision.

  8. #35
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    With groups where Group B is basically Group A+extra drift, generally you find that B is further from outgroups, which is not the case comparing NE to NW Europeans generally (distance to African outgroups in G25 is the same, and generally Fst also).

    Anyway, just to emphasize, however it breaks down into a composite of drift in some branch of ancestry and extra ancestry from Euro HG groups, Siberian East Asian groups (some have but not all) and SE European groups, it's not like it's a large amount of difference and NE and NW groups overlap in distance to MLBA (rather than separate), and the MLBA were populations in flux, so it's not like they're a stable reference point. The interesting thing (marginally interesting, not major) is really that NE is not closer to the MLBA population samples known, given the y dna link and geography and lack of sign of overall higher drift from outgroups. Rather than that they were further away.

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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    I'm guessing a fairly substantial contribution, possibly mediated by the Corded Ware sites around the Middle Dneiper and Fatyanovo cultures.
    If it is something about Eastern Slavs, both Russians, Ukrainians and Belarus, I guess the answer in pre-Slavic population of modern Belarus and forest (Northern) Ukraine. There is number of local cultures and most of them are considered to be Baltic. During 5th century BC most of local settlements where born by Huns (historians say that were Huns because of the arrows found in the born settlements). Some time after Slavs settled the territory. We do not know if Slavs got some admixture from possible survivors.

    We know little about how and when Eastern Slavs colonized what is now central Russia (territory around Moscow), what has happened to Dyakovo culture. As far as modern Russians from central Russia are genetically very close to Ukrainians/Belarus it is generally considered they got very little or no admixture from Dyakovo culture, but if Dyakovo culture themselves where genetically close to Balts, that could make it difficult to catch a little bit of additional Balt admixture.
    There are no doubts that when Slavs colonized what is now North East Russia (territories around Novgorod) they got significant Finnish admixture (but still trace most of their ancestry to Slavs).

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  12. #37
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    [1] "distance%=2.9604 / distance=0.029604"

    Pole (N=7)

    Latvia_HG_Z229669 50.9
    Germany_Elberstadt_Neolithic_M512608 30.1
    Steppe_Average (N=5) 19.1

    [1] "distance%=5.5267 / distance=0.055267"

    English (N=10)

    Ireland_Neolithic_Ballynhatty_M427312 51.1
    Steppe_Average (N=5) 24.5
    Latvia_HG_Z229669 24.4
    Germany_Elberstadt_Neolithic_M512608 0.0
    Scotland_Neolithic_Z818897 0.0

    The fit for English isnt that great but it highlights the difference with Poles.

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  14. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    [1] "distance%=2.9604 / distance=0.029604"

    Pole (N=7)

    Latvia_HG_Z229669 50.9
    Germany_Elberstadt_Neolithic_M512608 30.1
    Steppe_Average (N=5) 19.1

    [1] "distance%=5.5267 / distance=0.055267"

    English (N=10)

    Ireland_Neolithic_Ballynhatty_M427312 51.1
    Steppe_Average (N=5) 24.5
    Latvia_HG_Z229669 24.4
    Germany_Elberstadt_Neolithic_M512608 0.0
    Scotland_Neolithic_Z818897 0.0

    The fit for English isnt that great but it highlights the difference with Poles.
    These models don't make any sense.

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  16. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    These models don't make any sense.
    What populations should I add to make it better? Al northeastern Europeans seem to derive most of their ancestry from the Baltic HG groups, with additional steppe and neolithic farmer input. Tell me where I’m wrong.

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  18. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    What populations should I add to make it better? Al northeastern Europeans seem to derive most of their ancestry from the Baltic HG groups, with additional steppe and neolithic farmer input. Tell me where I’m wrong.
    I don't know what you're playing around with, but with the Global25 this is what I get...

    [1] "distance%=6.1569"

    Polish

    Yamnaya_Samara,51.8
    Globular_Amphora,48.2
    Germany_MN,0
    Ireland_MN,0
    Latvia_HG,0

    ...

    [1] "distance%=3.0921"

    English

    Globular_Amphora,54.4
    Yamnaya_Samara,45.6
    Germany_MN,0
    Ireland_MN,0
    Latvia_HG,0

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