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Thread: Brainstorming Y6923 - a deeply diverged Ashkenazi big group with links to the Med.

  1. #11
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    Ashkenazic downstream branch of E-Y6923 is labeled as E-Y6938, formed 1600 years ago, TMRCA 1350 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    Ashkenazic downstream branch of E-Y6923 is labeled as E-Y6938, formed 1600 years ago, TMRCA 1350 years.
    Yes, to date Y6938 is the exclusively Ashkenazi marker.

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    Some news:

    1. A Tunisian Jew whose known paternal line runs through Turkey, as well as an unidentified individual from Algeria (I would guess Jewish) have tested as Y6923+ and Y6938-. The Tunisian-Turkish Jew is supposedly pretty distantly removed from the Puerto Rican (converso-origin?) at Y102667, which suggests he might be Y102667-.

    2. A new clade (Y6926) defined by 15 unique SNPs has shown up on FTDNA's Y Haplotree between Y4971 and Y6923. So far the defining individuals (Y6926+ Y6923-) have not been identified with any information, including nation of origin.

    Both of these updates have the potential to significantly clarify the story of Y6923, an important Jewish Diaspora lineage that now seems to comprise both Ashkenazim and Sephardim (whether its bent toward North African Jews is a sampling artifact or evidence of a real pattern is hard to say). Waiting with bated breath to find out more about the Y6926+ Y6923- individuals.

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    Moreover:

    3. One of the Y6926+ Y6923- individuals has shown up in the FTDNA E-M35 mega-group, and while he's still unidentified, he clusters with 3 Emiratis and an Omani, all from the same family/clan.
    Last edited by hartaisarlag; 06-05-2019 at 11:10 PM.

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    Unfortunately I can't get any thoughts out of the people in the Y6923 project @ FTDNA. Does anyone else find this problem in their subclade investigations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hartaisarlag View Post
    Some news:

    1. A Tunisian Jew whose known paternal line runs through Turkey, as well as an unidentified individual from Algeria (I would guess Jewish) have tested as Y6923+ and Y6938-. The Tunisian-Turkish Jew is supposedly pretty distantly removed from the Puerto Rican (converso-origin?) at Y102667, which suggests he might be Y102667-.

    2. A new clade (Y6926) defined by 15 unique SNPs has shown up on FTDNA's Y Haplotree between Y4971 and Y6923. So far the defining individuals (Y6926+ Y6923-) have not been identified with any information, including nation of origin.

    Both of these updates have the potential to significantly clarify the story of Y6923, an important Jewish Diaspora lineage that now seems to comprise both Ashkenazim and Sephardim (whether its bent toward North African Jews is a sampling artifact or evidence of a real pattern is hard to say). Waiting with bated breath to find out more about the Y6926+ Y6923- individuals.
    Turns out our Turkish-Tunisian Jew is Y102667+.

    His claim of direct paternal origins in the Turkish Jewish community is curious to me—there is no specific location attached to the datum, and the surname he was known by (which his descendant carries) is almost certainly of North African provenance. How often would Jews from Turkey have migrated to Tunisia in the early 19th century - does anyone have an idea?

    I ask because the implications are somewhat different depending on whether or not there's an authentic origin outside of North Africa.

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    Further updates:

    1. Wim Penninx confirms that based on STR distance from the unidentified Y6926+ Y6923- individual, it's extremely likely that the same-clan cluster of Emiratis and Omanis (plus other unidentified individuals) is Y6926+. Considering that up until now, Y6923's closest relation, Y4972, shared a common ancestor with it in the 4th millennium BCE, and included Gulf Arabs, French, Italians, Greeks, Greek Jews, Armenians, and Russians, this is real progress.

    2. I've also been notified of the existence of two *predicted* Y6923+ Y6938- individuals: a Mexican and a Peruvian. They would definitely fit the emerging pattern of Y6923+ Y6938- as a Sephardic (or at least non-Ashkenazic Western Jewish) lineage, especially if confirmed Y102667+.

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    The latest:

    YFull is reporting that of the 3 confirmed Y102667+ individuals, 2—the Puerto Rican and the Turkish-Tunisian Jew—are now characterized by a pair of newly identified SNPs, Y99093 and BY92944 (and as such are now assigned to the branch E-Y99093). These are given a TMRCA of 550 CE.

    The Libyan Jew is negative for these SNPs, and remains E-Y102667*. Y102667's TMRCA has been updated to 350 CE.

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