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Thread: Brainstorming Y6923 - a deeply diverged Ashkenazi big group with links to the Med.

  1. #21
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    That Jew from Northern Africa with roots from Turkey seems to be the descendant of Spanish Sephard of Reconquest times.
    Some Sephardic people converted into Islam and assimilated in local Moslem ethnic groups.

    If we try to find Jewish ancestral subclade of this haplogroup it must have formation period not older than 3500 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    That Jew from Northern Africa with roots from Turkey seems to be the descendant of Spanish Sephard of Reconquest times.
    Some Sephardic people converted into Islam and assimilated in local Moslem ethnic groups.

    If we try to find Jewish ancestral subclade of this haplogroup it must have formation period not older than 3500 years.
    I don't think the Muslim Gulf Arabs who are Y6926+ are descended from Jews—I think their line diverged from Canaanites during the Bronze Age.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  4. #23
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    I see no Arabs at Y6923 tree, Jews only. Maybe you talked about another parallel downstream of L791?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    I see no Arabs at Y6923 tree, Jews only. Maybe you talked about another parallel downstream of L791?
    No, I've been watching this with a hawk's eye for the last 2 months.

    If you look at the FTDNA block tree or public haplotree, you'll see that there is now a marker upstream of Y6923 called Y6926. It, not Y6923, is now best thought of as a direct descendant of Y4971, and a sibling to Y4972 and BY36952. If you check the statistics on Y6926, you'll find that 2 individuals are assigned it as a terminal SNP, but neither has indicated a country of origin. Of the 32 SNPs previously assigned to Y6923, Y6926 has now claimed 15 of them. Someone who's better-versed in molecular clock stuff than me roughly estimated that Y6926 has a TMRCA in the 17th century BCE. This is obviously very tentative, but still significant, considering that Y6923's next most recent relation split from it ca. 3500 BCE, and in principle, anything can happen during 4 millennia unaccounted for.

    Since neither of the two has uploaded to YFull, it isn't on their canonical tree yet.

    One of the two confirmed Y6926+ Y6923- individuals is in the E-M35 group at FTDNA, and was immediately assigned to a cluster of individuals from one clan in the UAE and Oman. There are a few more, one with a different surname, in the Arab E1b1 group. Altogether about 10-12. Plus, the Y6926+ Y6923- confirmed individual's name finally surfaced in the Arab E1b1, and unsurprisingly, it's an Arab name. I've checked the Y111 genetic distances between all these individuals; it looks like their TMRCA is within the last 500 years. In other words, all of them, if tested for it, would probably turn out to be Y6926+.

    I've been reaching out to all the relevant parties I can find about this, and the response has been sluggish. I can't see why—this is the biggest refinement in E-L791's phylogeny in years. Just one BAM file uploaded to YFull would "make it official". I've even tracked one of the guys down on Twitter and written to him in Arabic, but it's of no avail so far. The Arab E-M35 Twitter account did respond to me, and suggested that the individuals in this cluster were probably Y16161+, downstream of Y4972—because they aren't aware that Y6926+ Y6923- is now documented. I showed them the documentation (Y16161 forms its own nicely sub-structured cluster; these folks all fall outside it, and are grouped with a confirmed Y6926+ man), and they haven't gotten back to me.

    In time...
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  7. #25
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    FTDNA tree structuring is not so trustable. It will be the best way for those Arabs to upload their bam-files to Yfull.
    The divergence node of Arabs and Jews fits in period of ~4kya. But all these speculations, theories and etc. are obvious things.

    The great secret for me is total absence of Y6923 in aDNA samples from Canaan. Who knows, maybe they will excavate new remnants this year?

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    Hi all,

    I manage a Bulgarian kit 306837 proved to be positive for L791. He has Y12 only, but has tested the L791 SNP by Sanguer sequencing. There is yet another kit in the Bulgarian project, IN27831, tested Y37, possitive for L791 and after YSEQ panel - E-Y6938.

    According to this paper https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0056779, the Е-M34 is around 1.9% in Bulgarians.

    In case some of you are interested to test both samples with BIG Y please donate to the Bulgarian Project - https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bulgariandna/ ; I may be able to put forward some funds myself

    Elena Kuyumdjian - [email protected]
    Last edited by Pillar_of_fire; 08-11-2019 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Add second kit number

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillar_of_fire View Post
    Hi all,

    I manage a Bulgarian kit 306837 proved to be positive for L791. He has Y12 only, but has tested the L791 SNP by Sanguer sequencing. There is yet another kit in the Bulgarian project, IN27831, tested Y37, possitive for L791 and after YSEQ panel - E-Y6938.

    According to this paper https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0056779, the Е-M34 is around 1.9% in Bulgarians.

    In case some of you are interested to test both samples with BIG Y please donate to the Bulgarian Project - https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bulgariandna/ ; I may be able to put forward some funds myself

    Elena Kuyumdjian - [email protected]
    Elena, I’m PMing you. Want to know more about these Bulgarians.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  12. #28
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    Update: false alarm re: Y6923+/Y6938+ Bulgarian.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farroukh View Post
    I see no Arabs at Y6923 tree, Jews only. Maybe you talked about another parallel downstream of L791?
    It's YFull-official now: https://yfull.com/tree/E-Y6926/. Estimated divergence ca. 1700 BCE. If I was the sort of person who believed in Isaac and Ishmael, I'd be pushing that *hard* right now.
    The clock indicates the momentóbut what does eternity indicate?

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  16. #30
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    Yes, the divergence point approx. fits with times of Exodus from Egypt.

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