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Thread: RixDNA Ancestry Results

  1. #1
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    RixDNA Ancestry Results

    Hi everyone! All 4 of my grandparents were from Punjab, Jatt/Tarkhan mix. Do I have a recent ancestor from the UK/Scandinavia? Is it part of the British Empire occupation?

    I have 10.9% Celtic/British DNA from MyHeritage, although only 2% FTDNA and 8%from Mediterranean (possibly ancient Celt?), on GEDmatch consistently around 6-8% Atlantic. Of these GEDmatch calculators 5-10% Celtic/British DNA itís sometimes called things like Irish, Scottish, Cornwall, Denmark, Sweden, Norway. In addition I also separately get around 10-12% North East Euro and around 3% Mediterranean on top of the North Atlantic component, but I know NE Euro is to be expected in Punjabis from perhaps an early migration.

    So a recent British ancestor?
    Thanks!

    DODECAD V3 RESULTS
    Population
    East_European 5.02 Pct
    West_European 13.60 Pct
    Mediterranean 7.17 Pct
    Neo_African -
    West_Asian 20.30 Pct
    South_Asian 44.72 Pct
    Northeast_Asian 2.68 Pct
    Southeast_Asian 3.67 Pct
    East_African -
    Southwest_Asian 2.84 Pct
    Northwest_African -
    Palaeo_African -
    Last edited by RixDNA; 01-07-2019 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Added more info

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  3. #2
    Gold Member Class
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    289
    Sex
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Ethnicity
    Indian - Punjabi Jatt
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    R2a-Y1383*
    mtDNA
    U7a3a

    England United Kingdom India India Punjab
    Quote Originally Posted by RixDNA View Post
    Hi everyone! All 4 of my grandparents were from Punjab, Jatt/Tarkhan mix. Do I have a recent ancestor from the UK/Scandinavia? Is it part of the British Empire occupation?

    I have 10.9% Celtic/British DNA from MyHeritage, although only 2% FTDNA and 8%from Mediterranean (possibly ancient Celt?), on GEDmatch consistently around 6-8% Atlantic. Of these GEDmatch calculators 5-10% Celtic/British DNA itís sometimes called things like Irish, Scottish, Cornwall, Denmark, Sweden, Norway. In addition I also separately get around 10-12% North East Euro and around 3% Mediterranean on top of the North Atlantic component, but I know NE Euro is to be expected in Punjabis from perhaps an early migration.

    So a recent British ancestor?
    Thanks!

    DODECAD V3 RESULTS
    Population
    East_European 5.02 Pct
    West_European 13.60 Pct
    Mediterranean 7.17 Pct
    Neo_African -
    West_Asian 20.30 Pct
    South_Asian 44.72 Pct
    Northeast_Asian 2.68 Pct
    Southeast_Asian 3.67 Pct
    East_African -
    Southwest_Asian 2.84 Pct
    Northwest_African -
    Palaeo_African -
    Don't take MyHeritage's ethnicity estimate too seriously. I'm a Jatt and they predicted me as having 18.4% Celtic/British DNA (FTDNA says 12% British Isles). NW Indians have significant amounts of DNA from the Pontic-Caspian Steppe (modern day East Ukraine) which many companies mistake for European. Mediterranean is also Steppe-derived so I wouldn't take that too seriously either. The chances of you having recent British ancestry is very slim.

    23andMe is a better service for determining recent ancestry, and I score 99.8% South Asian on there (with 0.1% North Asian/Native American and 0.1% Unassigned - No European here). The only thing I would say is that 23andMe is not very good for GEDmatch calculators for South Asians whereas MyHeritage is fantastic in this regard.

    My Dodecad V3 results:



    Considering you score less Euro than me and I have no recent European ancestry (within the last 300 years), I think its very unlikely that you do either, considering your results.

    On another note, would you be able to provide some results from the HarappaWorld calculator? This is the best calculator for South Asians, and the one that most South Asians on Anthrogenica use the most. This would give a better idea of how typical your results should be for a Jatt/Ramgarhia mix.
    Y-DNA (ISOGG 2019): R2a2b1b2a1a1-Y1383*

    YFull Line (From R-M207):

    M207+ ---> M479+ ---> M124+ ---> P267+ ---> Y12100+ ---> Y8763+ ---> Y8766+ ---> V3714+ ---> SK2142+ ---> Y1377+ ---> Y1379+ ---> Z29271+ ---> Y1383+ -X-> Y154917-

    Important Y-DNA negatives (within R2a-M124): L295-, Y5080-, L1069-, F1092-, L288-, L263-

    Extra mtDNA rCRS mutations: 207A, (315.1C), (523-), (524-), 2404C, 6150A, 8898T, 9755A, 15433T

    FTDNA Kit: IN41220

    GEDmatch Genesis Kit (MyHeritage): KC4074281

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  5. #3
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    ďConsidering you score less Euro than me and I have no recent European ancestry (within the last 300 years), I think its very unlikely that you do eitherĒ

    Well, could it be that you are just unaware of your recent European ancestry? I mean, unless you know the details of all your ancestors from the last 300 years, how can you rule it out?

    18% is very high and from the other matches who are Punjabi on MyHeritage, few of them have anywhere near that much Euro.

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RixDNA View Post
    “Considering you score less Euro than me and I have no recent European ancestry (within the last 300 years), I think its very unlikely that you do either”

    Well, could it be that you are just unaware of your recent European ancestry? I mean, unless you know the details of all your ancestors from the last 300 years, how can you rule it out?

    18% is very high and from the other matches who are Punjabi on MyHeritage, few of them have anywhere near that much Euro.
    If he had, 23andme would have picked it up - the shared chunks would have had pretty high cMs. If the ancestry is remote, those chunks break down over time.

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  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    If he had, 23andme would have picked it up - the shared chunks would have had pretty high cMs. If the ancestry is remote, those chunks break down over time.
    But I thought that the companies simply DON’T pick up any break down of South Asian. They just say things like 100% South Asia, which is ridiculous analysis, as India is a subcontinent with a huge mix of genetics and history. What was the point of the Harappa World project if the DNA companies like 23&Me don’t break that down? Which they don’t. Which answers that rhetorical question.
    The whole point of niche calculators like Harappa World and the other GEDmatch calculators, were to provide more insight in to the ancestry of those who might not be from the typical sample populations of those commercial companies.

    Also, why do I get matches from those with 100% Euro genes within the last 5 generations according to GEDmatch One-to-Many, if I don’t have any common recent euro ancestors?

    Also, what if his recent British ancestor hasn’t tested on 23&me yet or even hasn’t tested on any company yet and therefore remains undiscovered?

    Thanks.

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  10. #6
    Gold Member Class
    Posts
    289
    Sex
    Location
    Birmingham, UK
    Ethnicity
    Indian - Punjabi Jatt
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    R2a-Y1383*
    mtDNA
    U7a3a

    England United Kingdom India India Punjab
    Quote Originally Posted by RixDNA View Post
    “Considering you score less Euro than me and I have no recent European ancestry (within the last 300 years), I think its very unlikely that you do either”

    Well, could it be that you are just unaware of your recent European ancestry? I mean, unless you know the details of all your ancestors from the last 300 years, how can you rule it out?

    18% is very high and from the other matches who are Punjabi on MyHeritage, few of them have anywhere near that much Euro.
    I'm not sure I made this point clear enough. MyHeritage often mistakes PC-Steppe for European + Mediterranean. Another point I would mention is that MyHeritage assigned "Baltic" to both my father and sister but not me. That should be another example of why South Asians (particularly Punjabis) should not take MyHeritage's predictions at face value.

    23andMe (best for recent ancestry) assigned me no European ancestry. HarappaWorld (and other GEDmatch calculators) give me results typical for my community.

    parasar made a fantastic point about the way Steppe DNA is split in people differently depending on whether that Euro DNA is recent or ancient. If I had recent Euro DNA, this would be apparent in my DNA raw data.

    Given everything I've just said, it's sufficiently safe enough to say I have no recent Euro ancestry. I may not be completely able to rule out the possibility of recent Euro ancestry, however I also can't completely rule out the existence of Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. As long as the evidence is sufficient enough, it is enough for me to make a conclusion with.
    Y-DNA (ISOGG 2019): R2a2b1b2a1a1-Y1383*

    YFull Line (From R-M207):

    M207+ ---> M479+ ---> M124+ ---> P267+ ---> Y12100+ ---> Y8763+ ---> Y8766+ ---> V3714+ ---> SK2142+ ---> Y1377+ ---> Y1379+ ---> Z29271+ ---> Y1383+ -X-> Y154917-

    Important Y-DNA negatives (within R2a-M124): L295-, Y5080-, L1069-, F1092-, L288-, L263-

    Extra mtDNA rCRS mutations: 207A, (315.1C), (523-), (524-), 2404C, 6150A, 8898T, 9755A, 15433T

    FTDNA Kit: IN41220

    GEDmatch Genesis Kit (MyHeritage): KC4074281

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RixDNA View Post
    But I thought that the companies simply DON’T pick up any break down of South Asian. They just say things like 100% South Asia, which is ridiculous analysis, as India is a subcontinent with a huge mix of genetics and history. What was the point of the Harappa World project if the DNA companies like 23&Me don’t break that down? Which they don’t. Which answers that rhetorical question.
    The whole point of niche calculators like Harappa World and the other GEDmatch calculators, were to provide more insight in to the ancestry of those who might not be from the typical sample populations of those commercial companies.

    Also, why do I get matches from those with 100% Euro genes within the last 5 generations according to GEDmatch One-to-Many, if I don’t have any common recent euro ancestors?

    Also, what if his recent British ancestor hasn’t tested on 23&me yet or even hasn’t tested on any company yet and therefore remains undiscovered?

    Thanks.
    Harappa ancestry project is looking at admixture. They don't date that admixture. Plus the component names do not indicate provenance since they are not dating antiquity and then naming components, but naming them based on where they peak.
    HAP: "Do note that the admixture components do not necessarily represent real ancestral populations. Also, the names I have chosen for the components should be thought of as mnemonics to ease discussion. I chose them based on which populations in my data these components peaked in. They do not tell anything directly about ancestral populations."

    You can run your data over multiple calculators, each with their own nomenclature. Rather that paying attention to the nomenclature, or comparing across calculators, it is more effective to compare with others on the same calculator.

    23andme lists ancestry components within the bounds it describes. If they make the upper bound over 2000 years, we will start to see more overlap as the smaller shared chunks will come into play.

    That particular British ancestor does not have to test since he/she shares massive chunks of DNA with most other Brits (one of largest number tested) and most other Europeans. The European population, while very highly diverse internally, has been in a way put through a grinder in the past 4000 years and mixed, so now shows low person to person variation at present.

    How long a chuck is that GED match from? If you are seeing chunks (not overall but single) in the 15cM range, then that could indicate a recent shared ancestor.

    I too have numerous GEDMATCH 5 generation matches eg: one from Russia largest 13.3cM, 5.0 gen.

    FWIW, per GEDMATCH, 45000 ybp Ust Ishim and I have a most recent common ancestor just 7.2 generations back!
    Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs
    20 56,621,015 58,866,802 8.2 564
    Largest segment = 8.2 cM
    Total of segments > 7 cM = 8.2 cM
    Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.2
    Last edited by parasar; 01-07-2019 at 07:10 PM. Reason: typo

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  14. #8
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    parasar thank you for the details. I should’ve been more clear about the matches on GEDmatch = I was referring to the one to many list, not the admixture, which as you say, isn’t dated, but the one to many gives an estimated generation indication. So, if it’s indicating a common ancestor just 7.2 gens back for a 45000 sample, are this generation estimations very inaccurate?

    I had forgotten that HarappaWorld references aren’t necessarily actual populations. Where does it come from? Are some real and some derived/estimated?
    Is this how all the calculators work on GEDMatch?

    Thanks for your patience and explanations.

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbee2010 View Post
    I'm not sure I made this point clear enough. MyHeritage often mistakes PC-Steppe for European + Mediterranean. Another point I would mention is that MyHeritage assigned "Baltic" to both my father and sister but not me. That should be another example of why South Asians (particularly Punjabis) should not take MyHeritage's predictions at face value.

    parasar made a fantastic point about the way Steppe DNA is split in people differently depending on whether that Euro DNA is recent or ancient. If I had recent Euro DNA, this would be apparent in my DNA raw data.
    Maybe you didnít inherit the Baltic genes from your father, but your sister did? Could it be possible, as we donít always inherit the same 50% dna from the same parent?

    Thanks for highlighting the bit about steppe dna, Iíd not digested it properly but am understanding things better now. I also misunderstood you, as I assumed you were completely ruling any recent DNA out, apologies.

    I think I am getting disillusioned though. I love history and was excited to learn of my supposed varied history of ancestors and living in Britain, have always loved Celtic art and culture, and felt a closer connection when I got those results, even if that sounds dumb. Oh well.
    Maybe itís from a long time ago, given that multiple GEDmatch calculators come up with population admixtures results that include that region?

    I guess itís safe to say we at least have some genes from other tribes like Scythians? But I know that couldíve been from 2000 years ago.

    Other questions to all:
    Is DNA Land useful/accurate for South Asian raw data?
    Is FTDNA ancient origins useful/accurate for South Asians?

    Thanks.

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  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RixDNA View Post
    ...

    I think I am getting disillusioned though. I love history and was excited to learn of my supposed varied history of ancestors and living in Britain, have always loved Celtic art and culture, and felt a closer connection when I got those results, even if that sounds dumb. Oh well.
    Maybe it’s from a long time ago, given that multiple GEDmatch calculators come up with population admixtures results that include that region?

    I guess it’s safe to say we at least have some genes from other tribes like Scythians? But I know that could’ve been from 2000 years ago.
    ...
    No worries. You probably do have a connection to the old time Kelts!
    It may not be recent, but the analysis is picking up something in the data.
    Perhaps a Cimmerian connection - who knows. Cimmerians were Black Sea people who are sometimes associated with Kelts. We also do see some early branches of Y-R1a1-Z93 in Britain. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP5585/

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