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Thread: Asian ancestry proof?

  1. #11
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    Finland (Finnish) is/are not Asian.

    less than 1% of anything like what you've shown is hardly anything to hang your hat on.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryS. View Post
    Finland (Finnish) is/are not Asian.

    less than 1% of anything like what you've shown is hardly anything to hang your hat on.
    It's not Asian, but it can act as a proxy for a Siberian type of ancestry. I have plenty of personal examples like his that are sustained across different models. Finnics will eat up the Siberian and some of my East Euro. Once I add a Northeast Asian proxy on G25 along the Finnics, the Finnic percentages usually decrease hard or vanish, with the Siberian flowing into the proxy and the rest in more relevant for me Euros.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    It's not Asian, but it can act as a proxy for a Siberian type of ancestry. I have plenty of personal examples like his that are sustained across different models. Finnics will eat up the Siberian and some of my East Euro. Once I add a Northeast Asian proxy on G25 along the Finnics, the Finnic percentages usually decrease hard or vanish, with the Siberian flowing into the proxy and the rest in more relevant for me Euros.
    I agree, the Finnish is a proxy to various Asian-like ancestry. And no wonder, those people probably came from Siberia at some point in history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velislav View Post
    I agree, the Finnish is a proxy to various Asian-like ancestry. And no wonder, those people probably came from Siberia at some point in history.
    Just to further solidify the point consider this Global 25 example.

    I've chosen the references that make sense for my ancestry, plus the Finnish as a proxy for East Asian and Irish for some hidden NW residue (I also match with 4gp Irish folk on 23andme for some reason).



    Since we assume that Finns act as proxies for East Asian due to their Siberian ancestry, by adding Saamis, we should expect them to fit the formula even better.



    And so they did.

    Now, I'm adding Nganassans, who are the population that is presumed to have contributed to the ~7% Siberian that is normal for the average Finn. As expected, Nganassans completely replace the Finns and Saamis and this improves the fit.



    Even further, I can keep on going and improving the fit. I know that my grandmother comes from a town, which was one of the administrative cores for the Tataro-Mongols of the Golden Horde in this region.
    More about this here. If you don't have such info, then I think that it is also sensible to expect that this is an ancient signal, perhaps mediated via the Scythians, Cimmerians, Sarmatians or more recently Hunns and Bulgars.

    But given that clue from my paper trail, let's add some Central Asian and East Asian populations, which were on the Eurasian steppes during that time and were likely incorporated into the empire and recruited into the army.



    Beautiful, that reduces the distance even further and that's where I'm going to stop at.

    Therefore, the conclusion is that Finnish can act as an East Asian proxy, when there isn't anything better. They received this signal via the Samoyedic Nganassans or a population related to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Velislav View Post
    PuntDnal K 12 Modern (however this is the only calculator that is modeling me like that):

    98% Bulgarian + 2% Papuan @ 1.51
    2 97.6% Bulgarian + 2.4% Bougainville @ 1.58
    3 97.7% Bulgarian + 2.3% Selkup @ 2.46
    4 98% Bulgarian + 2% Dolgan @ 2.49
    5 98.2% Bulgarian + 1.8% Yakut @ 2.5
    6 97.6% Bulgarian + 2.4% Altaian @ 2.51
    7 98.6% Bulgarian + 1.4% Nganasan @ 2.52
    8 98% Bulgarian + 2% Tuvinian @ 2.52
    9 95.5% Bulgarian + 4.5% Chuvash @ 2.52
    10 96.6% Bulgarian + 3.4% Turkmen @ 2.58
    11 97.3% Bulgarian + 2.7% Hazara @ 2.61
    12 96.3% Bulgarian + 3.7% Uzbek @ 2.62
    13 95.5% Bulgarian + 4.5% Mordovian @ 2.71
    14 95.8% Bulgarian + 4.2% Nogai @ 2.72
    15 98.8% Bulgarian + 1.2% Mongolian @ 2.72
    16 96.9% Bulgarian + 3.1% Tajik_Pomiri @ 2.72
    17 96.5% Bulgarian + 3.5% Russian @ 2.73
    18 99% Bulgarian + 1% Korean @ 2.75
    19 98.1% Bulgarian + 1.9% Burusho @ 2.76
    20 99% Bulgarian + 1% Japanese @ 2.76
    These are mine with the same calculator

    Last edited by Dorkymon; 01-11-2019 at 12:45 PM.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
    Hidden Content

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    Just to further solidify the point consider this Global 25 example.

    I've chosen the references that make sense for my ancestry, plus the Finnish as a proxy for East Asian and Irish for some hidden NW residue (I also match with 4gp Irish folk on 23andme for some reason).



    Since we assume that Finns act as proxies for East Asian due to their Siberian ancestry, by adding Saamis, we should expect them to fit the formula even better.



    And so they did.

    Now, I'm adding Nganassans, who are the population that is presumed to have contributed to the ~7% Siberian that is normal for the average Finn. As expected, Nganassans completely replace the Finns and Saamis and this improves the fit.



    Even further, I can keep on going and improving the fit. I know that my grandmother comes from a town, which was one of the administrative cores for the Tataro-Mongols of the Golden Horde in this region.
    More about this here. If you don't have such info, then I think that it is also sensible to expect that this is an ancient signal, perhaps mediated via the Scythians, Cimmerians, Sarmatians or more recently Hunns and Bulgars.

    But given that clue from my paper trail, let's add some Central Asian and East Asian populations, which were on the Eurasian steppes during that time and were likely incorporated into the empire and recruited into the army.



    Beautiful, that reduces the distance even further and that's where I'm going to stop at.

    Therefore, the conclusion is that Finnish can act as an East Asian proxy, when there isn't anything better. They received this signal via the Samoyedic Nganassans or a population related to them.




    These are mine with the same calculator

    How much Siberian do you score on K13?

  10. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    How much Siberian do you score on K13?
    2.65, but also 2 East Asian; in general I agree that GEDmatch shouldn't be taken too seriously.

    But if that's backed by commercial tests from companies like 23andme who have a 100% precision and recall rate for East Asian and Siberian ancestry then I suggest keeping an eye on that. Around 2% sounds fair for me after numerous Global25 models, but also as seen on commercial tests.

    And for those who don't know how 23andme works, if you get 100% Finnish for example, that doesn't mean that there isn't some Siberian in there. At this point, the Siberian is already included in the Finnish component. If you want to break one from the other, you have to play around with the data, ideally on Global25, as that's the best option right now.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
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  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    2.65, but also 2 East Asian; in general I agree that GEDmatch shouldn't be taken too seriously.

    But if that's backed by commercial tests from companies like 23andme who have a 100% precision and recall rate for East Asian and Siberian ancestry then I suggest keeping an eye on that. Around 2% sounds fair for me after numerous Global25 models, but also as seen on commercial tests.

    And for those who don't know how 23andme works, if you get 100% Finnish for example, that doesn't mean that there isn't some Siberian in there. At this point, the Siberian is already included in the Finnish component. If you want to break one from the other, you have to play around with the data, ideally on Global25, as that's the best option right now.

    Thank you. I scored 3.9 Siberian on K13 with my 23andme V5.
    But had very low Finnish and no Asian admixture on 23andme.

  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    Here's one SNP that you can test. It has a 99% chance to not occur in Europeans, where it will stay at its ancestral position (CC/AA). For East Asians, this SNP is derived (TT/GG).
    I have both variants at TT for example and I get consistent East Asian levels like you do.

    What I am referring to is the SNP that causes light skin in East Asians, rs1800414.



    https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/33/5/1177/2579596
    I have this.

    Genes:OCA2

    Marker (SNP) rs1800414

    Genomic Position 28197037

    Variants C or T

    Your Genotype T/T
    Last edited by Mixed; 01-11-2019 at 05:19 PM.

  14. #19
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    Here is another Asian marker you can search for. I also have it. It is rs3827760. If you have a G shown for either letter at this location, then you carry this particular mutation.

    https://dna-explained.com/2013/02/17...eeth-and-more/
    Last edited by Mixed; 01-11-2019 at 06:11 PM.

  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mixed View Post
    Here is another Asian marker you can search for. I also have it. It is rs3827760. If you have a G shown for either letter at this location, then you carry this particular mutation.

    https://dna-explained.com/2013/02/17...eeth-and-more/
    I think that's the SNP from the EDAR gene, which the guys on the 1st page were talking about. I'm AA here.
    Last edited by Dorkymon; 01-11-2019 at 07:46 PM.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
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