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Thread: Are Gujaratis really North Indian?

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    Are Gujaratis really North Indian?

    It seems that Gujarati people in most calculators score significant amounts of ASI compared to other NW populations. I remember a Gujarati member in this forum posting his oracles and it showed Velama and other South Indians populations as his primary matches.

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    Depends on what term we're talking about. A really AASI dalit from North is still North Indian and identical to UP brahmin Bihari Bhabhan is still Central Indian. In those terms they're Western Indians.
    Deg Teg Fateh - Victory to Charity and Arms

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollybolly View Post
    It seems that Gujarati people in most calculators score significant amounts of ASI compared to other NW populations. I remember a Gujarati member in this forum posting his oracles and it showed Velama and other South Indians populations as his primary matches.
    North and south indian are arbitrary terms. Like MDL said you can have a dalit in kashmir or punjab who scores more like a dalit in tamil nadu than people near him. You can have a brahmin in kerala/tamil nadu who scores closer to sindhi/lohana than a patel.

    Guju's are a range. They range from mid-caste south indian (most patels) to sindhi in the kutchi/lohana/guj muslim groups with intermediate groups like shahs (guj , nagar brahmins (gujarati brahmins), etc.

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    I think terms of East/West rather than North/South. They are definitely the most western Indians, and one of the most western South Asian populations in general. In a genetic context, this is far more relevant; ie. why some Gujarat/Kutch populations are more West Asian shifted than some Punjab populations becomes rather self-evident when you think E/W as opposed to N/S. Ahmedabad is west of Islamabad...

    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 01-12-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    I think terms of East/West rather than North/South. They are definitely the most western Indians, and one of the most western South Asian populations in general. In a genetic context, this is far more relevant; ie. why some Gujarat/Kutch populations are more West Asian shifted than some Punjab populations becomes rather self-evident when you think E/W as opposed to N/S. Ahmedabad is west of Islamabad...

    If you look at Harappa samples, there is a significant gap between Guju muslims (who are the most nW shifted from all gujus) and the neighbouring sindhis. How can we explain this gap

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollybolly View Post
    If you look at Harappa samples, there is a significant gap between Guju muslims (who are the most nW shifted from all gujus) and the neighbouring sindhis. How can we explain this gap
    Gujarati muslims who's results stand out most likely have one west asian ancestor. Khojas or memons are converts from Lohanas, and most likely have one non SA ancestor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollybolly View Post
    If you look at Harappa samples, there is a significant gap between Guju muslims (who are the most nW shifted from all gujus) and the neighbouring sindhis. How can we explain this gap
    The rann (desolate/wasteland) is a pretty significant barrier. As is the thar (desert) father up north.

    Also when we talk about Sindhis are we including fishermen populations such as the Mohanna?


    The British Library Mohana fishermen catching Hilsa/Palla downstream in the Indus. Source: Dawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Gujarati muslims who's results stand out most likely have one west asian ancestor. Khojas or memons are converts from Lohanas, and most likely have one non SA ancestor.
    I don't think I have foreign admixture tbh. My results are pretty much in line with other khatris, sindhis and pathan sample. The only thing is possibly high Caucasian in Harappa and high American/Siberian but I don't think it's really significant.

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    They are definitely North Indian. More AASI doesn't automatically mean someone is South Indian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kart View Post
    They are definitely North Indian. More AASI doesn't automatically mean someone is South Indian.
    But they score similar to velama and other SI populations which is weird to classify them as North Indians. Comparing gujus to very west asian/steppe shifted populationssuch as jatts, khatris, sindhis, pathan, it's difficult to say that gujus belong genetically to this cluster.

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