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Thread: N1c in Balts came with Finnic admixture?

  1. #1
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    N1c in Balts came with Finnic admixture?

    Bronze Age Balts published so far were all R1a, but Early Medieval (MA) Balt DA171 (ca. 350-650 AD) had N1c. I tried to model DA171 autosomally as a mixture of Bronze Age (BA) Balts and modern Non-Baltic populations, to check if he had any extra admixture that possibly arrived together with N1c.

    Here is a rather good model that I got:

    Lithuania-MA (DA171):

    Latvia-BA 52.5 %
    Poland_Sudovia 20.5 %
    Belarus_Vitebsk 18.6 %
    Finland_Karelia 8.4 %
    Lithuania-BA 0%

    Map showing location of DA171 burial:

    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map.../54.453/28.459

    =====

    Before you ask, I wasn't using Global25 for this model. Is DA171 also available in Global25 spreadsheet?
    Last edited by Tomenable; 01-14-2019 at 10:13 AM.

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    Yes, guys in the research paper had something like:
    Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Erzya for 4 populations.

    Edit: and Shaikorth had something like 90+% Latvian + some % EHG-ish.

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    Could you try with Erzya instead of Karelia?

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    This presentation was held yeterday
    https://youtu.be/0x_wUQKvosM

    Its all in Finnish and some of the material is irrelevant to the subject however in the second half there are some interesting slides pertaining to the upcoming Estonian paper.

    Basically N1c shows up in the Baltic around 700-500BC which explains why DA171(350-650AD) is so close to modern Balts. It post dates all known major migrations to the region.

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    Last edited by Waldemar; 01-14-2019 at 03:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Early Medieval (MA) Balt DA171 (ca. 350-650 AD) had N1c
    Could anyone point me to the source of the information that this is N1c-L1025 (N1c-M2783) and not any other subclade of N1c?

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    Interesting - it says
    R1a arrived into Baltics 1,200-700 BCE.
    N1c 700-500 BCE.
    If my Finnish is any good, lol!

    Wonder if that is some specific R1a lines because I thought R was already earlier.

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    I did not check the video, but your comment ("R1a arrived into Baltics 1,200-700 BCE") does not correspond to the text in the picture posted above:
    "Y-hr R1a:n levikki Itä-Baltiassa ca 1200-700 BC … ja N3a:n tulo ca 700/500" =
    The distribution of yDNA R1a in Eastern Baltics ca 1200-700 BC ... The arrival of N3a ca 700/500

    However, I do not quite understand what Eastern Baltics means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michał View Post
    Could anyone point me to the source of the information that this is N1c-L1025 (N1c-M2783) and not any other subclade of N1c?
    DA171 was listed as N-L1025 in the leaked pre print of this paper. https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB20658

    I dont think the full version has a haplogroup for DA171
    listed at all.
    Last edited by MikkaK; 01-14-2019 at 06:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parastais View Post
    Interesting - it says
    R1a arrived into Baltics 1,200-700 BCE.
    N1c 700-500 BCE.
    If my Finnish is any good, lol!

    Wonder if that is some specific R1a lines because I thought R was already earlier.
    The R1a 1200-700BC is referring to the Stone Cist graves only. R1a has been found in older Baltic CWC graves.

    Also in the last slide posted by Waldemar you can see that the fortified settlement culture is still untested so it is possible N1c was in the Baltic earlier than the oldest Tarand graves.

    The Bronze age seima turbino/Textile ware could possibly be N1c as well.

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