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Thread: What happened to Afanasievo

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    What happened to Afanasievo

    They had a culture that was derived from and genetically identical to Yamnaya but lived much further east deep in Siberia. What became of these people-were they replaced entirely or absorbed by some other group? Are there at least partial descendants alive today? What is the genetic legacy?

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    Idk about Afanasievo as a whole, but we do have a nice time-slice of samples along the Yenesei River between Krasnoyarsk & Abakan.
    Afanaseivo - 2909-2468BC
    Okunevo - late 3 millenium BC, 39% Botai/WSHG, 43% Baikal_BA, 18% Afanasievo
    Andronovo - labeled as Krasnoyarsk_MBA, but I'm presuming they belong to Andronovo culture-wise. 80% Sintashta/Srubnaya looking / 20% Okunevo-looking.
    Karasuk - mid 2nd millenium BC, Andronovo + 25% Baikal_BA
    Tagar - 900-800BC, pretty much the same as Karasuk, maybe a tiny bit of Central Asian mixture?

    Afanasievo ancestry in this region by 800BC: Probably about 3%
    Last edited by Kale; 01-15-2019 at 03:26 AM.
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    The theories I've read attribute to Afanasievo the source population that reflects the early Tocharian split. I'm not sure where else in time it could have occurred otherwise. After this they are partially absorbed by Okunevo followed by Andronovo and then finally the last speakers of a Tocharian language were absorbed by the Uyghurs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kale View Post
    Idk about Afanasievo as a whole, but we do have a nice time-slice of samples along the Yenesei River between Krasnoyarsk & Abakan.
    Afanaseivo - 2909-2468BC
    Okunevo - late 3 millenium BC, 39% Botai/WSHG, 43% Baikal_BA, 18% Afanasievo
    Andronovo - labeled as Krasnoyarsk_MBA, but I'm presuming they belong to Andronovo culture-wise. 80% Sintashta/Srubnaya looking / 20% Okunevo-looking.
    Karasuk - mid 2nd millenium BC, Andronovo + 25% Baikal_BA
    Tagar - 900-800BC, pretty much the same as Karasuk, maybe a tiny bit of Central Asian mixture?

    Afanasievo ancestry in this region by 800BC: Probably about 3%
    Looks like afanasievo didnot originate in yamna, but somewehere else. They have more EHG than any other yamna samples,but no WHG, GAC. Anthoy thought that they were from Repin, who seemed to know yamna and afanasievo cultural differences.


    Moreover, MLBA Andronovo east has more EHG than MLBA steppe west and LBA steppe- zevakinski most EHG among them. I think it means some EHG R1a-z93 would survive in siberia until late bronze.

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    Afanasievo basically just looks like died out with no necessary contribution to later steppe cultures, which in Western and Central steppe are derived from Sintashta+Andronovo and probably some seasoning from various ANE rich cultures about in North Central Asia, and Iranian related components that are moving through South Central Asian, and in the Eastern steppe are just ENA related.

    Steppe urhemiat PIE theory probably would prefer to link them with Tocharian though - it's otherwise hard to explain a preserved early branch, as they seem to be in most models. The south theories of PIE (Balkan or "south of Caucasus") would gesture in the direction of link Tocharian to separate expansions of either Anatolian or CHG related ancestry through southern Central Asia, to the extent that can be supported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    They had a culture that was derived from and genetically identical to Yamnaya but lived much further east deep in Siberia. What became of these people-were they replaced entirely or absorbed by some other group? Are there at least partial descendants alive today? What is the genetic legacy?
    They were mostly absorbed by Turks, Mongols and some eastern Central Asians. South of Turkestan i don't think there is much direct ancestry from them. But indirectly some Proto-Iranics and Proto-Indo-Aryans, who were admixed with Yamnaya/Afanasievo tribes, brought Afansievo-like ancestry and R1b to the south.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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    I think the link between Afanasievo-related and the Tocharians is intuitively too strong to be deluded. Just like before dna results, the link between Afanasievo and Yamnaya was. About what they have became, probably most of it was diluted into Proto-Turkic peoples, while the rest went to the eastern tarim and the gansu corridor. The Tocharian question might be an exeption to the rest of IE hypothesis, because it's plausible that R1b was replaced with some Scythian R1a-Z93 but the language stayed a Prestige Language used for whatever reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    They were mostly absorbed by Turks, Mongols and some eastern Central Asians. South of Turkestan i don't think there is much direct ancestry from them. But indirectly some Proto-Iranics and Proto-Indo-Aryans, who were admixed with Yamnaya/Afanasievo tribes, brought Afansievo-like ancestry and R1b to the south.
    Thanks. Do you also happen to know what their exact distribution was? The maps I've seen have shown different things-in some they are in central southern siberia-in others they stretch all the way east to lake Baikal. And what were they doing that far east anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by halfalp View Post
    I think the link between Afanasievo-related and the Tocharians is intuitively too strong to be deluded. Just like before dna results, the link between Afanasievo and Yamnaya was. About what they have became, probably most of it was diluted into Proto-Turkic peoples, while the rest went to the eastern tarim and the gansu corridor. The Tocharian question might be an exeption to the rest of IE hypothesis, because it's plausible that R1b was replaced with some Scythian R1a-Z93 but the language stayed a Prestige Language used for whatever reasons.
    I am actually sceptical about linking Afanasievo with Tocharians. There are more than 3000 years between them and Tocharians lived south of the Afanasievo culture. Also Tocharians were described and shown as light haired, what actually points to a MLBA steppe origin, because only among MLBA steppe people light hair became common after steppe people mixed with light haired GAC-like farmers. On the other side Yamnaya and Afanasievo lacked mostly GAC-like admixture and was not light haired.

    But it also possible that historical Tocharians were a Afanasievo-derived group who was already heavily mixed with MLBA-steppe derived Iranics.
    Y-DNA: R1a> R-M417> R-Z645> R-Z93> R-Z94> R-Y3 (Sredny Stog culture)> R-L657> R-Y4(Andronovo)> R-Y6> R-Y5> R-Y920* (Pashtun)

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    ^I was thinking the same

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