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Thread: Why would my grandmother score this on 23andme?

  1. #1
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    Why would my grandmother score this on 23andme?

    She is Portuguese, with some further back Cape Verdean heritage.

    The African heritage she has comes up mostly as "Senegambian and Guinean" which makes sense, but she gets a tiny bit of something called "Southern East Africa" which is centered on Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, and Uganda. And it predicts the full blooded ancestor as having lived in the 1700s.

    I cannot imagine there were any slaves that came from this region to Madeira or Cape Verde. Why would she be scoring that?

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    that timeline is horsesh*t, pay no attention to it. As far as why, its anyones guess. Mixed up signals?
    nMonte K36
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    IT South 30%
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    E-V13 => E-PH1246 => E-BY14160
    Antonio Reale born circa 1710, CiminÓ Italy

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  4. #3
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    It could be from her European Portuguese ancestry. I get 0.1% East Africa, also showing up in some other calculators. It might be very old and who knows who could have brought it (Phoenicians, Romans, Arabs). But it could also be more recent. Remember that Mozambique was a Portuguese colony until 1975.
    Last edited by Lugus; 01-15-2019 at 06:01 AM.
    Father's mtDNA: T1a1
    Maternal YDNA: R-L21 Z251

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    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Such residual percentages are normal and don't necessarily imply an actual ancestor in their given period. I've seen people with over 0,5% West Asian and/or SSA.

    I also have 0,2% Senegambian and 0,1% East Asian, but I haven't found any genealogical evidence for an ancestor who lived in the 1700s to be form outside the country (except the paternal line, which is very likely Galician). Excluding people from coastal cities, most populations were highly sedentary and didn't move more than a few villages over generations, the biggest jump I have is in the 1700s from Valenša to Penalva - and even that was very rare because the overwhelming majority of people married locally. The only possibility is an abandoned great great grandmother from Porto, but even that is unlikely because such cases were unfortunetly quite commonplace due to illegitimate children born out of wedlock, or simply because poverty made parents unable to raise or feed their children - also her grandchildren, whom I've met, actually look rather north European, by far the most in my family. Your grandmother's case is possibly the same.
    Last edited by Ruderico; 01-15-2019 at 09:56 AM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA plot Hidden Content ; Western Europe-only Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=2.2305"

    Ruderico

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    Roman_Collegno_o1,18.4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    She is Portuguese, with some further back Cape Verdean heritage.

    The African heritage she has comes up mostly as "Senegambian and Guinean" which makes sense, but she gets a tiny bit of something called "Southern East Africa" which is centered on Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, Burundi, and Uganda. And it predicts the full blooded ancestor as having lived in the 1700s.

    I cannot imagine there were any slaves that came from this region to Madeira or Cape Verde. Why would she be scoring that?
    Everyone needs to get familiarised with their precision and recall rates.

    https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

    For example, SSA ancestry has a 100/98 precision/recall rate, which means that it will always be accurate.
    But for Southern East African, that drops to 93/82. That means that if you can't find anything that can explain this, then you have the flexibility to just treat it as broad SSA.

    You shouldn't rely on this alone, but check with different Global25 models to find if that signal is indeed there.
    Last edited by Dorkymon; 01-15-2019 at 10:12 AM.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
    Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    Everyone needs to get familiarised with their precision and recall rates.

    https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

    For example, SSA ancestry has a 100/98 precision/recall rate, which means that it will always be accurate.
    But for Southern East African, that drops to 93/82. That means that if you can't find anything that can explain this, then you have the flexibility to just treat it as broad SSA.

    You shouldn't rely on this alone, but check with different Global25 models to find if that signal is indeed there.
    I was wondering if it was an Angolan or Mozambican ancestor, something Bantu and it just happened to somehow match some eastern Bantu people but really was not from that exact region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Such residual percentages are normal and don't necessarily imply an actual ancestor in their given period. I've seen people with over 0,5% West Asian and/or SSA.

    I also have 0,2% Senegambian and 0,1% East Asian, but I haven't found any genealogical evidence for an ancestor who lived in the 1700s to be form outside the country (except the paternal line, which is very likely Galician). Excluding people from coastal cities, most populations were highly sedentary and didn't move more than a few villages over generations, the biggest jump I have is in the 1700s from Valenša to Penalva - and even that was very rare because the overwhelming majority of people married locally. The only possibility is an abandoned great great grandmother from Porto, but even that is unlikely because such cases were unfortunetly quite commonplace due to illegitimate children born out of wedlock, or simply because poverty made parents unable to raise or feed their children - also her grandchildren, whom I've met, actually look rather north European, by far the most in my family. Your grandmother's case is possibly the same.

    That you score Senegambian to me supports that it IS real considering that's where the slaves brought to Portugal came from. You won't find the ancestor in your tree as it was likely an illegitimate affair that wouldn't be recorded.

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  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    That you score Senegambian to me supports that it IS real considering that's where the slaves brought to Portugal came from. You won't find the ancestor in your tree as it was likely an illegitimate affair that wouldn't be recorded.
    That is pure speculation with 0 evidence, in fact, considering you're talking about my family, that is pretty insulting. Many of my Portuguese and Spanish matches also score it, it's fairly common, as is residual Nigerian, West African pre-v5, etc. And how about people who have 10% Italian, how many recent Italian ancestors you reckon they have? Probably a full grandfather lol
    Anyway, what do you know about Portuguese genealogical records and how people lived in the past around these parts, particularly in my rural regions of ancestry? Nothing, you're a complete ignorant on the matter and are just giving some random excuses based on something you read about in a completely unrelated setting. Stick to something you might actually know a thing about.
    Last edited by Ruderico; 01-15-2019 at 06:10 PM.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA plot Hidden Content ; Western Europe-only Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=2.2305"

    Ruderico

    Hallstatt_Bylany,43.4
    Iberia_BA,34.4
    Roman_Collegno_o1,18.4
    Iberomaurusian,3.8

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    Jeez, relax. This is a forum and 90% of what we do is speculate and make assumptions on the sliver of info we can glean from a fellow poster who decides to put some info in their signature.
    nMonte K36
    Fit = 1.87
    NE England 47.5%
    IT Calabria 33.3%
    NL_Friesland 13.3%
    SV_Svealand 5.83%

    G25
    Fit=2.03
    Eng 61.67%
    IT South 30%
    Sweden 8.33%


    E-V13 => E-PH1246 => E-BY14160
    Antonio Reale born circa 1710, CiminÓ Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    That is pure speculation with 0 evidence, in fact, considering you're talking about my family, that is pretty insulting.
    I am sorry you find it insulting you may have a Sub-Saharan African ancestor, but Senegambian slaves to Madeira, Azores, and a lesser extent the Portuguese mainland are documented.

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