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Thread: I-M253 downstream SNP

  1. #1
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    Question I-M253 downstream SNP

    I have tested at FTDNA Y37. I follow the downstream SNP from By11-(Y7060) - By3411 - BY3407 (CTS10345) England- Y21374 (Y21380)-Sweden (middle ages), then I see JN12 in Middle ages Sweden and than on down the SNP a DF77 which is ancient Alpine, than L287 Finland, P109 Scandinavia, and Y4115 Sweden in Germanic Iron Age. I am getting this information from the I1 charts on < eupedia.com> I may be reading this incorrectly and am wondering if the SNP does not follow a linear line from Ancient to present, why is ancient SNP showing up farther along the trail. Please advise me or lead me to some explanation. thank you.

    Bigenigma
    Last edited by Bigenigma; 01-16-2019 at 11:25 PM.

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     JonikW (01-16-2019)

  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigenigma View Post
    I have tested at FTDNA Y37. I follow the downstream SNP from By11-(Y7060) - By3411 - BY3407 (CTS10345) England- Y21374 (Y21380)-Sweden (middle ages), then I see JN12 in Middle ages Sweden and than on down the SNP a DF77 which is ancient Alpine, than L287 Finland, P109 Scandinavia, and Y4115 Sweden in Germanic Iron Age. I may be reading this incorrectly and am wondering if the SNP does not follow a linear line from Ancient to present, why is ancient SNP showing up farther along the trail. Please advise me or lead me to some explanation. thank you.

    Bigenigma
    Have you only tested STRs so far? If so, you will need to do SNP testing to establish your own position. Judging by STR matches can be extremely misleading.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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     deadly77 (01-17-2019),  dink (01-17-2019)

  5. #3
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    This is SNP that I am looking at. I have STR, but really don't understand that. Should the results be linear in time?

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigenigma View Post
    This is SNP that I am looking at. I have STR, but really don't understand that. Should the results be linear in time?
    Ah, I see. Did you do Big Y, and if so can you confirm your terminal SNP? Also, have you uploaded to YFull?
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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     Bigenigma (01-17-2019)

  8. #5
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    No, have not done Big Y. only Y-37

  9. #6
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    Welcome to the forums Bigenigma. I agree with JonikW - SNP (single nucleotide polymorphs) testing is the way to go if you're looking to find where you fit in to the I1 phylogenetic tree. The Y37 is a STR (short tandem repeat) test and doesn't include any SNPs. STR signatures can be used to predict a SNP-based subclade, but SNP tests can be used to confirm or disconfirm a prediction.

    There are a couple of things you can do with your Y37 which may point you in the right direction. Both are free:
    1) Join the I1 Y-DNA project at FTDNA here https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/y-dna-i1/about - admins will group you together with other testers who match your STR signature more closely than others in the project.
    2) Input your Y37 results into the Nevgen online predictor here http://www.nevgen.org/ - it's a good predictor but may not give you the best prediction with only 37 STR markers - 67 or 111 is better. However, it's worth a try to see what it says.

    Although I must admit that I'm a bit confused by your initial post - these seem to be a list of disparate SNPs that are included in different branches of the I1 phylogenetic tree. Are these coming from your STR match list or are you trying to understand how the tree is put together? I notice that you mention Eupedia - the charts there haven't been update for a while. I prefer the YFull tree https://www.yfull.com/tree/I1/ which gets updated more regularly and also includes age estimations for subclade branches - perhaps that helps with how ancient some SNPs are compared to other SNPs. Although I'm really not sure what you're looking for.

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     Bigenigma (01-17-2019),  JMcB (01-17-2019),  JonikW (01-17-2019)

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