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Thread: Question about Iberia CHL

  1. #1
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    Question about Iberia CHL

    Are they simply a fusion between Anatolian farmers and WHG, or do they represent a completely standalone population? They seem incredibly western, more so than WHG.

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    Bump.

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    Spain
    they seem to be about 60-50% WHG and the rest is just Basal Eurasian

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    Double post, please remove.
    Last edited by Eterne; 01-20-2019 at 03:29 PM.

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    It's probably worth considering this map when we think about migration routes:



    The mainstream idea is that they probably where Anatolia+Iberian HG, along with some other HG picked up en route and genetic drift, and some ongoing mixture past the initial founding of the Iberian Early Neolithic. The Iberian HG were likely richer in Magdalenian (El Miron) ancestry. The distinctiveness comes about from these tendencies, and also possibly is easier to detect on PCAs because their ancestry is relatively well preserved in Iberians.

    There is no sign that they came from a different founding population than Anatolia yet, though it can be very hard to distinguish between what is from drift and an ancient subpopulation structure we don't know about yet (like in the thread about Eastern Europeans and Baltic BA).

    (One good point about this map is to clear up the difference between an out of Iberia movement and a forking split between an into Iberia and into NW Europe movement, along the Cardial route. Though there would probably have been continuous contact after this anyway).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eterne View Post
    It's probably worth considering this map when we think about migration routes:



    The mainstream idea is that they probably where Anatolia+Iberian HG, along with some other HG picked up en route and genetic drift, and some ongoing mixture past the initial founding of the Iberian Early Neolithic. The Iberian HG were likely richer in Magdalenian (El Miron) ancestry. The distinctiveness comes about from these tendencies, and also possibly is easier to detect on PCAs because their ancestry is relatively well preserved in Iberians.

    There is no sign that they came from a different founding population than Anatolia yet, though it can be very hard to distinguish between what is from drift and an ancient subpopulation structure we don't know about yet (like in the thread about Eastern Europeans and Baltic BA).

    (One good point about this map is to clear up the difference between an out of Iberia movement and a forking split between an into Iberia and into NW Europe movement, along the Cardial route. Though there would probably have been continuous contact after this anyway).
    Im not sure but they seem to me to be some sort of distinct population. Not Anatolian farmers and not shifting towards WHG but rather something more radically western. Basques seem to be a mixture of them and some sort of steppe population, and perhaps dont have any Anatolian farmer ancestry at all? They are overwhelmingly R1b with little to no Anatolian haplogroups such as Ev13 and G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Im not sure but they seem to me to be some sort of distinct population. Not Anatolian farmers and not shifting towards WHG but rather something more radically western. Basques seem to be a mixture of them and some sort of steppe population, and perhaps dont have any Anatolian farmer ancestry at all? They are overwhelmingly R1b with little to no Anatolian haplogroups such as Ev13 and G.
    Apparently there was no R1b-M269 in Iberia before about 2500 BC and the arrival of the steppe-derived Kurgan Bell Beaker people, so you have to cut the Basque R1b out of the original formulation.
     


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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Apparently there was no R1b-M269 in Iberia before about 2500 BC and the arrival of the steppe-derived Kurgan Bell Beaker people, so you have to cut the Basque R1b out of the original formulation.
    What about I0410 that was found in Spain and dated to ~5100 BCE? Outlier?

    Edit: Actually looks like this sample was R-V88. Looks like an African branch. So the point about the Steppe origins of R-L23 stands.
    Last edited by AbdoNumen; 01-20-2019 at 08:28 PM.
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    F3 outgroup nmonte model

    Iberia_CA
    "Barcin_N" 40.05
    "Greece_N" 17.8
    "Peloponnese_N" 16.95
    "Bichon" 10.2
    "LaBrana1" 9.9
    "KO1" 4.2
    "Mentese_N" 0.8
    "Mota" 0.1
    "distance%=0.1511 / distance=0.001511"
    Columns: Boncuklu_N, Iran_N, Taforalt, Kotias, MA1, Anzick_Kennewick, ElMiron, Iron_Gates_HG, Motala_HG, Ukraine_Mesolithic, Ust_Ishim

    Nothing out of the ordinary. No problems at all fitting to any of the columns.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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    from mathieson et al supptable5 qpAdm
    Iberia_Chalcolithic autosomes 26.2WHG 73.8AN x-chr 8.1WHG 91.9AN
    ?a more HGmale dominant society +female exogamy from an AN rich(er) area?
    Iberia_MN autosomes 22.3WHG 77.7AN x-chr 20.5WHG 79.5AN

    from supptable4 *Iberia_Chalcolithic fits a model of 23.7% Villabruna +8.7% ElMiron +67.6% Anatolia Neolithic (p=0.29) **Iberia_MN fits a model of 16.3% Villabruna +12.4% ElMiron +71.4% Anatolia Neolithic (p=0.26)
    Last edited by alexfritz; 01-20-2019 at 11:17 PM.
    Geno2.0NG 51%SEurope 19%WCEurope 13%Scandinavia 5%AsiaMinor 4%EEurope 4%GB&Ireland 3%Arabia myOrigins 52%WCEurope 40%SEEurope 5%BritishIsles 3%WMiddleEast DNA.Land 49%NWEuropean 27%SEuropean 13%MedIslander 11%Sardinian myHeritage 51.8%NWEuropean 33.2%Italian 7.9%Greek&SouthItalian 7.1%Balkan gencove 29%NItaly 19%EMed 15%NBritishIsles 12%SWEurope 10%NCEurope 9%Scandinavia 6%NEEurope GenePlazaK29 54.4%NWEurope 37.6%Greek/Albania 5.6%WAsian 2.4%SWAsia

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