Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 38

Thread: Question about Iberia CHL

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,621
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    There is another factor here. Baltic_HG has a firm tad Magdalenian, as shown in Extended Data figure 7 in the Dzudzuana preprint. Loschbour has more, La Brana has even more than Loschbour.
    @angles @epoch
    Agree angles. but Huijbregts and Davidski place me both on the Scandic side of NW Europe. So no disagreement about this.
    Basically taken as some with roots in Groningen and Drenthe, I'm (that's archeological state of the art) a mixture of a 'Germanic' Anglo-Saxon stream, North Sea people, from NW Germany. And a 'pre-Germanic' component, in Drenthe heavily TRB.
    We don't know if in this case Germanic and pre-Germanic component really were differentiated. Many developments in the North Germain Plain (Anglo-Saxon heartland) happened also in Drenthe....
    But what I do know is that my mother has a relative lower Steppe but a definitely enhanced HG and somewhat enhanced Farmer component. These component are higher than in the available early Anglo-Saxon samples. So it's reasonable to assume they were related to a TRB heritage (of course no hard proof).
    I'm absolutely convinced that this is the big picture.

  2. #22
    Moderator
    Posts
    5,410
    Sex
    Location
    Normandy
    Ethnicity
    northwesterner
    Y-DNA
    U152>L2>Z367
    mtDNA
    H5a1

    Normandie Netherlands Friesland Finland Orkney
    Finn, here is what I get for you with "my" "sorcellow-modified" calculator:

    [1] "distance%=2.2937"

    Finn

    Steppe,54.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,34.4
    Baltic_HG,10
    Euro_HG,1.4


    Would you like to know what your parents get? If yes, recall me their G25 components. The other Dutch, at least those who are in my archives get:

    [1] "distance%=2.3869"

    Radboud

    Steppe,58.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,35
    Euro_HG,6.8


    [1] "distance%=1.8682"

    Huijbregts

    Steppe,51.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,36.8
    Baltic_HG,11.4
    Siberian,0.6
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to anglesqueville For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-07-2019)

  4. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,621
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Finn, here is what I get for you with "my" "sorcellow-modified" calculator:

    [1] "distance%=2.2937"

    Finn

    Steppe,54.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,34.4
    Baltic_HG,10
    Euro_HG,1.4


    Would you like to know what your parents get? If yes, recall me their G25 components. The other Dutch, at least those who are in my archives get:

    [1] "distance%=2.3869"

    Radboud

    Steppe,58.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,35
    Euro_HG,6.8


    [1] "distance%=1.8682"

    Huijbregts

    Steppe,51.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,36.8
    Baltic_HG,11.4
    Siberian,0.6
    Thanks Angles, of course I would like (prediction my father has the highest Steppe, Mom highest HG).

    In plots of Hiuijbregts I'm steady the most Nordic, Radboud the most Western and Huijbregts himself the most southern (kind of East France like).

    Dad
    0.132035 0.139128 0.060339 0.053295 0.042469 0.019522 0.010575 0.011999 0.002045 0.000911 -0.008607 0.006744 -0.014123 -0.004266 0.015472 0.004243 -0.00678 0.006081 0.006159 0.004252 0.00574 0.00371 -0.002711 0.014219 -0.002275

    Mom
    0.137726 0.139128 0.064865 0.056848 0.043393 0.021475 0.001175 0.008538 0.011044 0.002005 -0.002923 0.004046 -0.004906 -0.001101 0.020087 0.011933 -0.001565 0.006588 0.002765 0.003126 0.00574 0.005935 -0.005053 0.011086 -0.000599

    Thanks in advance.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-07-2019)

  6. #24
    Moderator
    Posts
    5,410
    Sex
    Location
    Normandy
    Ethnicity
    northwesterner
    Y-DNA
    U152>L2>Z367
    mtDNA
    H5a1

    Normandie Netherlands Friesland Finland Orkney
    [1] "distance%=2.2531"

    finn_dad

    Steppe,54.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,35.8
    Baltic_HG,9.6
    Euro_HG,0.4


    [1] "distance%=2.3105"

    finn_mom

    Steppe,51.4
    Anatolian_Farmer,35.2
    Baltic_HG,12.8
    Siberian,0.6


    biplot.jpg
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to anglesqueville For This Useful Post:

     Finn (04-07-2019),  JMcB (04-07-2019),  palamede (04-07-2019),  Ruderico (04-07-2019)

  8. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,158
    Sex
    Location
    Viseu
    Ethnicity
    Romanised Paesuri
    Nationality
    Portuguese
    Y-DNA
    E-BY36857
    mtDNA
    H20

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Wow that's an odd place for me to plot
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-07-2019)

  10. #26
    Gold Member Class
    Posts
    1,342
    Sex
    Location
    Florida, USA.
    Ethnicity
    English, Scottish & Irish
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA
    I-A13243
    mtDNA
    H1e2

    England Scotland Ireland United States of America Vatican Germany Schleswig-Holstein
    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    [1] "distance%=2.2531"

    finn_dad

    Steppe,54.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,35.8
    Baltic_HG,9.6
    Euro_HG,0.4


    [1] "distance%=2.3105"

    finn_mom

    Steppe,51.4
    Anatolian_Farmer,35.2
    Baltic_HG,12.8
    Siberian,0.6


    biplot.jpg
    Hello Angle,

    Would you mind putting me in that plot?

    Edit: Just in case ;-)

    JMcB,0.0116,0.0138,0.0175,0.0124,0.0133,0.0055,0.0 025,0.0023,0.0048,0.0054,0.0001,0.0001,-0.0109,-0.0092,0.0099,0.0024,-0.0047,0.002,0.0052,0.0016,0.0077,0.0022,0.0009,0. 0051,-0.0004
    Last edited by JMcB; 04-07-2019 at 04:49 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

     Finn (04-07-2019)

  12. #27
    Moderator
    Posts
    5,410
    Sex
    Location
    Normandy
    Ethnicity
    northwesterner
    Y-DNA
    U152>L2>Z367
    mtDNA
    H5a1

    Normandie Netherlands Friesland Finland Orkney
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Wow that's an odd place for me to plot
    Hem, I never claimed that it was a "good calculator". In fact when I started this thing my only interest was the Siberian component. Therefore I removed a lot of references that didn't interest me, perhaps too many, in particular for model people from southern Europe. I should look again more seriously, but frankly, I don't think it's worth the work, this is actually anecdotal.
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to anglesqueville For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-07-2019),  Ruderico (04-07-2019)

  14. #28
    Moderator
    Posts
    5,410
    Sex
    Location
    Normandy
    Ethnicity
    northwesterner
    Y-DNA
    U152>L2>Z367
    mtDNA
    H5a1

    Normandie Netherlands Friesland Finland Orkney
    double post
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to anglesqueville For This Useful Post:

     Ruderico (04-07-2019)

  16. #29
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,158
    Sex
    Location
    Viseu
    Ethnicity
    Romanised Paesuri
    Nationality
    Portuguese
    Y-DNA
    E-BY36857
    mtDNA
    H20

    Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ
    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Hem, I never claimed that it was a "good calculator". In fact when I started this thing my only interest was the Siberian component. Therefore I removed a lot of references that didn't interest me, perhaps too many, in particular for model people from southern Europe. I should look again more seriously, but frankly, I don't think it's worth the work, this is actually anecdotal.
    Oh it's quite all right, I just found it interesting since I usually plot in the opposite direction within southern Europe. Thanks for adding me there anyway!
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>BY36857. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Ruderico For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-07-2019)

  18. #30
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,621
    Sex
    Location
    Groningen
    Ethnicity
    Northwest European
    Nationality
    NL
    Y-DNA
    E-V22

    Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    [1] "distance%=2.2531"

    finn_dad

    Steppe,54.2
    Anatolian_Farmer,35.8
    Baltic_HG,9.6
    Euro_HG,0.4


    [1] "distance%=2.3105"

    finn_mom

    Steppe,51.4
    Anatolian_Farmer,35.2
    Baltic_HG,12.8
    Siberian,0.6


    biplot.jpg
    Thanks Angles!

    You have put my mother in the Euro HG corner, but doesn't she have 12,5 in the Baltic HG corner?

    These are the 'genetic facts and figures'. A model, a representation of reality but not reality itself of course, it's simplified.
    And without context it stays quite meaningless. Because what were the population developments, what shaped in reality the gene pool? In that sense I'm quit lucky because the auDNA, the genepool, of mom and dad are quite restricted. My mother from Drenthe and then from a small restricted zone called Hondsrug. My father is from Groningen a peat bog district and clay district. Groningen/Drenthe are connected to the Northern German plain, that shaped the population development also.

    In big steps the population development.
    Hondsrug Drenthe has a very old population:
    Swifterbant/Erteb°lle, Funnelbeaker, CordedWare/Single Grave, Bell Beaker have all their influence. It's most known for the funnel beaker. It was the Funnelbeaker hotspot!
    The influences of the Bronze Age cultures are quite unclear to me, I only known that a very high ranked Tumulus grave in her auDNA region.

    The population of the clay district in Groningen is an offshoot of the population in Drenthe, since the Iron Age people started to build artificial hights in the lowlands.

    In the fourth century AD, in the turmoil of the end of the Roman empire, large parts of the clay districts had a severe population decline, especially in nowadays Friesland. In Groningen also but they used Drenthe as a retraitre zone.

    In the fifth and sixth century the Anglo-Saxon stream had a big impact on the North Dutch population. Of course in the abandoned zone in Friesland, Westergo, there was the place of chieftain Finn of Beowulf. But it also affected clay district Groningen and sandy district Drenthe. The Saxons/Chauci were already expanding there during Roman times. Although Drenthe was never depopulated (so I guess the pre-Germanic component not disappeared into the air).

    So in the end we see:
    - Drenthe Hondsrug population with a big amount of pre Germanic (TRB plus CW/BB ) population;
    - Groningen with a suspected bigger amount of Anglo-Saxon influx. Plus an NW Germanic influx until the nineteenth century because Groningen was a very wealthy agricultural province that attracted people from the NW German borderland (Emsland, Westfalia etc).

    So of course mom and dad are no 'aliens' or 'frozen products' of the past. Of course they have NW Euro kind of mixtures.
    But what is to be expected is that Dad is more average 'NW Germanic', early Saxon like. Mom has the biggest chance of some pre-Germanic admixture!

    Do we see that in the figures? Yes. Dad is quite average NW Germanic, fits in the early Anglo-Saxon picture and is very close to German Mediaval. Mom has every time just that somewhat extra HG (ongoing thing in all kind of plots/admixtures whatsoever). In some admixture also some extra EEF. What seen the fact that the Hondsrug was an absolute Funnelbeaker/TRB pocket not odd....

    I guess this is a responsible way to put the 'genetic fact and figures' in (anthro) context.
    Last edited by Finn; 04-07-2019 at 06:23 PM.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Finn For This Useful Post:

     palamede (04-07-2019)

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-21-2018, 12:31 PM
  2. Haplogroup R1a distribution in Iberia
    By jeanL in forum R1a General
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 05-17-2018, 07:11 PM
  3. Britain and Iberia- E-BY5219
    By firemonkey in forum E1b-M215
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-30-2017, 09:28 PM
  4. DNA Testing (or lack of) in Iberia
    By curiousII in forum General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-01-2017, 04:31 PM
  5. Y-dna distribution in Iberia
    By Il PapÓ in forum General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-31-2014, 11:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •