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Thread: The after effect of the Northern Beakers......

  1. #1
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    The after effect of the Northern Beakers......

    What’s the after effect of the Northern Beakers?

    Recently Davidski of Eurogenes detected that Northern Beakers (especially Dutch and British BB ) are a Single Grave (Corded Ware) derivative.

    Lemercier (2017):


    This is the one of or even thé source population of the modern NNW Europeans.

    As David shows the Northern Beakers are, because of higher Steppe and higher HG, in modern terms very Nordic. See this:



    Is it true that Anthrogenica members from Isles, NW Continental Europe, Scandinavia that in a certain way come closer to the North Beaker core population, got therefore some push to the North!?

    I potential even cross through the Celtic, Saxon, Viking stories....the North Beakers stood at the core of all three!

    Any thoughts? Comments?
    Last edited by Finn; 01-26-2019 at 12:21 PM.

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    I did some comparison of 29 anthrogenica member whom from I thought they had a potential NW European link. I guess I have detected these members with a high potential chance of having North Beakers in the ancestry.

    I used the rudimentary model of Davidski with HG Blattherhole, Neolithic France and Corded Ware Germany. Ok a little low in samples. But I guess it worked.

    We see some members with around 70% CWC Germany and some with a little amount HG Blattehole.

    The North Beaker potentials are:

    Amerjoe, Captitalis, Jessie, Mitchel1893, Molfish, Nibelung Uncle, Randwulf fil, Firemonkey and his dad and Finn and mom and dad.

    Fo a check I used Ph2ter Ancient Basics calculator.

    The most people who scored about 70% CWC Germany, scored around 50% Steppe in the calculator.
    But there were a few exceptions Radboud had 65 CWC but 49% Steppe, but showed a somewhat enhanced WHG.
    Capitalis had in the admixture a somewhat lower Steppe namely 46% but a somewhat higher WHG (13%).
    Nibelung had in de admixture as only one a strong EHG 9%. I guess Nibelung is somewhat eastern of NW Europe.

    I'm curios if people recognize this!!!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    I did some comparison of 29 anthrogenica member whom from I thought they had a potential NW European link. I guess I have detected these members with a high potential chance of having North Beakers in the ancestry.

    I used the rudimentary model of Davidski with HG Blattherhole, Neolithic France and Corded Ware Germany. Ok a little low in samples. But I guess it worked.

    We see some members with around 70% CWC Germany and some with a little amount HG Blattehole.

    The North Beaker potentials are:

    Amerjoe, Captitalis, Jessie, Mitchel1893, Molfish, Nibelung Uncle, Randwulf fil, Firemonkey and his dad and Finn and mom and dad.

    Fo a check I used Ph2ter Ancient Basics calculator.

    The most people who scored about 70% CWC Germany, scored around 50% Steppe in the calculator.
    But there were a few exceptions Radboud had 65 CWC but 49% Steppe, but showed a somewhat enhanced WHG.
    Capitalis had in the admixture a somewhat lower Steppe namely 46% but a somewhat higher WHG (13%).
    Nibelung had in de admixture as only one a strong EHG 9%. I guess Nibelung is somewhat eastern of NW Europe.

    I'm curios if people recognize this!!!


    Finn, our results are different here. How come?

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    Add my wife to the potentials: half Swedish-half Scottish
    Model Sample Details Fit Map Blatterhole MN CWC Germany France MLN
    1 Blatterhole_MN +CWC_Germany +France_MLN Custom:AGUser_conqueror_wife 2.1389 Open Map 4 73 23
    K8: French East/German South/Austrian 26%, French North East/Belgian/German West 25%, French North 25%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 10%, French South/French Basque 9%, German East/Czech/Austrian 5%
    K16: German/Czech/Austrian 33%, French/Belgian 23%, Portuguese/Spanish 22%, Irish/Scottish/Welsh 13%
    K36: German Rheinland-Pfalz 35%, French North West 27%, Spain 27%, Ireland 11%
    G25: German 40%, French 28%, Spanish 23%, Irish 9%
    K16: German 50%, French 19%, French East 9%, Spanish 8%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radboud View Post
    Finn, our results are different here. How come?
    The results may be sometimes a bit shaky in the runner.....I don't know what's the cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radboud View Post
    Finn, our results are different here. How come?

    My results are also different, when I do my own run. Perhaps, because of a different penalty setting.

    Custom:AGUser_JMcB
    Pen 0.001
    1000
    500

    Fit 2.2904

    CWC Germany 71.8
    France MLN 28.2
    Blatterhole HG 0



    Pen 0 (is similar to Finn’s run above)

    Fit 2.0265

    CWC Germany 63
    France MLN 34
    Blatterhole HG 3
    Last edited by JMcB; 01-26-2019 at 04:27 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    My results are also different, when I do my own run. Perhaps, because of a different penalty setting.

    Custom:AGUser_JMcB
    Pen 0.001
    1000
    500

    Fit 2.2904

    CWC Germany 71.8
    France MLN 28.2
    Blatterhole HG 0



    Pen 0 (is similar to Finn’s run above)

    Fit 2.0265

    CWC Germany 63
    France MLN 34
    Blatterhole HG 3
    Yes indeed forgot to state that all was done by pen= 0

    In the admixture (classic by Ph2ter) also with pen=0 your result is
    Steppe 44.17
    EEF 40.83
    WHG 15

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    Out of curiosity, I tried to model myself:

    pen=0

    [1] "distance%=1.7401"

    Pat_S

    CWC_Germany,70.4
    France_MLN,29.6


    pen=0.001

    [1] "distance%=1.979"

    Pat_S

    CWC_Germany,77.4
    France_MLN,22.6
    En North alom, de North venom
    En North fum naiz, en North manom

    (Roman de Rou, Wace, 1160-1170)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Out of curiosity, I tried to model myself:

    pen=0

    [1] "distance%=1.7401"

    Pat_S

    CWC_Germany,70.4
    France_MLN,29.6


    pen=0.001

    [1] "distance%=1.979"

    Pat_S

    CWC_Germany,77.4
    France_MLN,22.6
    And Blatterhole?

    In your case with F/F/F ancestry hard to detect.....

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    A nice way to visualize the Beaker-like populations in the W-Eurasian PCA, is to plot the dimension PC2 and PC6.
    BB_dim26.jpg
    For clarity I omitted a few minor Beaker groups, but they are on te same cline.

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