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Thread: Big Y-700

  1. #1491
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    FTDNA's R&D Director, Göran Runfeldt, participated in a tele-video conference where he exposed a new tool FTDNA has internally - the "Time Tree".

    The "VIKING DNA comparisons with FamilyTreeDNA" Youtube presentation with Göran Runfeldt and a Swedish business partner.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krmKE1Jd49Y

    Multiple people with Scandinavian descent have submitted Big Y results to compare with ancient DNA Viking finds that FTDNA has analyzed. These cases are reviewed in the presentation.

    It's very interesting to see how ancient DNA samples can be used by modern Big Y testers. In this regards, it may be Medieval ancient DNA that is most important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerMW View Post
    FTDNA's R&D Director, Göran Runfeldt, participated in a tele-video conference where he exposed a new tool FTDNA has internally - the "Time Tree".

    The "VIKING DNA comparisons with FamilyTreeDNA" Youtube presentation with Göran Runfeldt and a Swedish business partner.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krmKE1Jd49Y

    Multiple people with Scandinavian descent have submitted Big Y results to compare with ancient DNA Viking finds that FTDNA has analyzed. These cases are reviewed in the presentation.

    It's very interesting to see how ancient DNA samples can be used by modern Big Y testers. In this regards, it may be Medieval ancient DNA that is most important.
    That looks nice, I hope it gets available soon.

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  5. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerMW View Post
    FTDNA's R&D Director, Göran Runfeldt, participated in a tele-video conference where he exposed a new tool FTDNA has internally - the "Time Tree".

    The "VIKING DNA comparisons with FamilyTreeDNA" Youtube presentation with Göran Runfeldt and a Swedish business partner.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krmKE1Jd49Y

    Multiple people with Scandinavian descent have submitted Big Y results to compare with ancient DNA Viking finds that FTDNA has analyzed. These cases are reviewed in the presentation.

    It's very interesting to see how ancient DNA samples can be used by modern Big Y testers. In this regards, it may be Medieval ancient DNA that is most important.


    I like how the current Block Tree aggregates public and private SNPs for many subclade branches in order to smooth out the variance in snp mutation rates. This has great potential for predicting timeframes for certain subclade branches. The only issue I currently have with it is that it’s a mish mash of Big Y-700 and Big Y-500 kits which can affect how we interpret these aggregated private SNP statistics and how they might correlate to a predictive timeframe. For example, a subclade branch with 11 Big Y-700 kits and 2 Big Y-500 kits should be interpreted differently than a subclade branch with 11 Big Y-500 kits and 2 Big Y-700 kits due to the differences in coverage. Viewing the Block Tree theres no way of discerning the different types of Big Y tests used in compiling the aggregated private SNP information. I hope in the future Ftdna finds a way to deal with this issue. Perhaps they did with their “Time Tree?” Personally, I would adjust Big Y-500 private SNPs based on the difference in coverage prior to incorporating them into the Block Tree aggregated private SNP statistics.
    Last edited by mwauthy; 06-17-2021 at 07:10 PM.
    I-DF29: ool009 Skane, Sweden 1930-1750 BCE

    Z58, Z59, Z2041, Z2040, Z382, FGC24333

    S26361: VK532 Zealand, Denmark 200-375 CE

    S16414, FGC24354, FGC24357, FGC24356, S10350

    FGC75802/BY19383: VK446 Funen, Denmark 800-1050 CE

    Y125947, S21197, BY149414, BY188003, BY188570

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    I like how the current Block Tree aggregates public and private SNPs for many subclade branches in order to smooth out the variance in snp mutation rates. This has great potential for predicting timeframes for certain subclade branches. The only issue I currently have with it is that it’s a mish mash of Big Y-700 and Big Y-500 kits which can affect how we interpret these aggregated private SNP statistics and how they might correlate to a predictive timeframe. For example, a subclade branch with 11 Big Y-700 kits and 2 Big Y-500 kits should be interpreted differently than a subclade branch with 11 Big Y-500 kits and 2 Big Y-700 kits due to the differences in coverage. Viewing the Block Tree theres no way of discerning the different types of Big Y tests used in compiling the aggregated private SNP information. I hope in the future Ftdna finds a way to deal with this issue. Perhaps they did with their “Time Tree?” Personally, I would adjust Big Y-500 private SNPs based on the difference in coverage prior to incorporating them into the Block Tree aggregated private SNP statistics.
    Yes, that's something which confused me a lot because some older tests get, at the same distance in time, just half the SNPs. With the old tests, even if you know it, you never know how much it affects the SNP count. Sometimes only a little, sometimes a lot.

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  9. #1495
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    The great emphasis in that video of Haplogroup I is most interesting, as is the total absence of R1a.

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  11. #1496
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    It’s possible. I had a strange situation where a SNP I knew I was positive for, never showed up in the branch I formed with my closest matches. It was in the combBED region and it was also positive in all of the VCF files my matches submitted to YFull. So I was curious why it never made it into our block of SNPs. After a while, I decided to call them about it and they took a look and added it to our branch. We were also getting:“Currently no results”.

    Sometimes things can fall through the cracks.
    I think you nailed it: They just put us in a new subclade with 10 SNPs, so they concluded my "no-call" was actually a match for Dad's result. I guess that means our closest match is really 800 years apart (if 80 years/SNP)?
    Some time around 1200 AD but still only 35km away in 1600 AD.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  13. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    I think you nailed it: They just put us in a new subclade with 10 SNPs, so they concluded my "no-call" was actually a match for Dad's result. I guess that means our closest match is really 800 years apart (if 80 years/SNP)?
    Some time around 1200 AD but still only 35km away in 1600 AD.

    Excellent, Congratulations!

    Sounds like they didn’t finished doing their review until now.
    Last edited by JMcB; 06-18-2021 at 08:53 PM.
    Paper Trail: 42.25% English, 31.25% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French. Or: 86% British Isles, 6.25% German, 6.25% Sicilian & 1.5% French.
    LDNA(c): 86.3% British Isles (48.6% English, 37.7% Scottish & Irish), 7.8% NW Germanic, 5.9% Europe South (Aegean 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%)
    BigY 700: I1-Z140 >I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 620 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 765 AD) >FT80854 (circa 1650 AD).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    I think you nailed it: They just put us in a new subclade with 10 SNPs, so they concluded my "no-call" was actually a match for Dad's result. I guess that means our closest match is really 800 years apart (if 80 years/SNP)?
    Some time around 1200 AD but still only 35km away in 1600 AD.
    Isn't 80 years per SNP kind of short? There are different models and calculations out there, but 80 years is very much at the lowest possible end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    Isn't 80 years per SNP kind of short? There are different models and calculations out there, but 80 years is very much at the lowest possible end.
    I have a hard time with the average SNP years being a lot longer. Maybe there were lulls, sometimes, and other times there were burst of mutations that pushed the average down?
    I mean, if it's 100 years, that means P312>DF19>DF88 formed 6500 years ago? 4479 BCE -- 1000 years before Yamnaya Culture starts L51 formed 5580 BCE?
    Last edited by Dewsloth; 06-18-2021 at 09:26 PM.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    I have a hard time with the average SNP years being a lot longer. Maybe there were lulls, sometimes, and other times there were burst of mutations that pushed the average down?
    I mean, if it's 100 years, that means P312>DF19>DF88 formed 6500 years ago? 4479 BCE -- 1000 years before Yamnaya Culture L51 formed 5580 BCE?
    There are studies suggesting that the mutation rate is not even the same between all haplogroups. Some may mutate faster than others. But generally speaking, 100 years is still rather too low, yet there is no general consensus and the best proof comes from ancient DNA I'd say.

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