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Thread: Big Y-700

  1. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    107 out of 25,722 have 16-17 at DYF395S1. None of the 1259 U152 samples in the R1b project with a DYF395S1 value had 16-17. 59 U152 had 16-16.

    Other rare DFF395S1 values include
    0-0: 1 M269 sample
    11-16: 2 related L21 samples
    12-13: 2 related R-CTS3386 samples
    12-15: 2 related samples (same surname), R-S668, R-BY92554
    12-16: 3 samples, 2 U152, 1 M269
    13-15: 5 Finnish Y227680 samples are have same surname
    13-16: 12 samples from various haplogroups
    14-17: 1 M269 sample
    15-15-16: 5 samples various SNPs
    15-16-16: 1 U106
    15-18: 13 samples various haplogroups
    15-19: 1 Finnish sample
    16-18: 3 samples, 2 M269, 1 U106
    17-17: 10 samples various haplogroups
    Interesting. I looked through the DF19 Group, and only a handful of the 560 members (single digits) are not 15-16. I see 14-16, 16-16, and 15-17 outliers.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  3. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    I don’t think any of these 9 “garbage” non-shared Variants will be upstream because according to Ftdna my first cousin and I have different results. However, we share the same grandfather born in 1908 and we have a genetic distance of 1 at 111 markers.

    Here is a summary of our 10 non-shared Variants:

    1 solid Unnamed Variant downstream of our grandfather on my cousin’s line: 16004378

    9 already named “garbage” non-shared Variants probably found in other patrilineal lines that Ftdna will ignore on their Haplotree for my area of the Haplotree, but they still include amongst the 30 non-shared Variants threshold:

    BY46728: 4C 1G, YFull not used
    BY26941: 7A 1C, YFull not used
    BY26942: 8G, YFull not used
    BY26943: 7A, YFull not used
    BY26944: 7T, YFull not used
    DC557: 5T 1G, YFull not used
    BY44298: 2A 3G, YFull not used
    BY51957: 1T 13C, YFull not used
    BY227683: 13T 2C, YFull not used

    Here are my cousin’s results for those 9 “garbage” non-shared Variants.

    BY46728: 3C 21G, YFull not used
    BY26941: 2A 10C, YFull not used
    BY26942: 10A 2G, YFull not used
    BY26943: 2A 6T, YFull not used
    BY26944: 2T 6C, YFull not used
    DC557: 1T 14C, YFull not used
    BY44298: 5A 1G, YFull not used
    BY51957: 9T 2C, YFull not used
    BY227683: 7T 13C 1DEL, YFull not used
    @mwauthy, thank you for your post on the previous page and this post earlier in this thread that I found while searching for BY44298. My 1st cousin and I both have poor reads on it plus the SNPs ZS4024 and A6148. Yet FTDNA has all three included in our non-matching variants, inflating the number from 2 to 5.. We both tested on the Big Y700 however his results just came in. I'm hoping during his manual review they will be thrown out because even if they're not garbage they certainly aren't showing up with high quality reads.
    Last edited by Robert1; 10-15-2021 at 11:34 PM.
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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  5. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert1 View Post
    @mwauthy, thank you for your post on the previous page and this post earlier in this thread that I found while searching for BY44298. My 1st cousin and I both have poor reads on it plus the SNPs ZS4024 and A6148. Yet FTDNA has all three included in our non-matching variants, inflating the number from 2 to 5.. We both tested on the Big Y700 however his results just came in. I'm hoping during his manual review they will be thrown out because even if they're not garbage they certainly aren't showing up with high quality reads.

    You’re welcome! The same issue confused me tremendously at first as well. So with my Big Y-500 test vs my first cousin’s Big Y-700 test we had 10 non shared variants. When I upgraded to Big Y-700 that decreased to 4 non shared variants between us. It’s not like our y chromosomes changed so it was a technical or testing issue or coverage issue I presumed?

    However, my dad and myself, and my most likely 6th cousin once removed all have Big Y-700 tests now so I have zero idea why my father has 23 non shared variants with this individual while I only have 6 with this individual. In theory I should have the same as my father or close to his number plus maybe slightly more I would think? At this point I can’t be bothered with these non Haplotree worthy variants. They’re pointless to me and I don’t use them for patrilineal differentiation.
    I-DF29: ool009 Skane, Sweden 1930-1750 BCE

    Z58, Z59, Z2041, Z2039, Z2040, Z382, FGC24333

    S26361: VK532 Zealand, Denmark 200-375 CE

    S16414, FGC24354, FGC24357, FGC24356, S10350

    FGC75802: VK446 Funen, Denmark 800-1050 CE

    Y125947, S21197, BY149414, BY188003, BY188570,

    FT213710 Belgium

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  7. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    You’re welcome! The same issue confused me tremendously at first as well. So with my Big Y-500 test vs my first cousin’s Big Y-700 test we had 10 non shared variants. When I upgraded to Big Y-700 that decreased to 4 non shared variants between us. It’s not like our y chromosomes changed so it was a technical or testing issue or coverage issue I presumed?

    However, my dad and myself, and my most likely 6th cousin once removed all have Big Y-700 tests now so I have zero idea why my father has 23 non shared variants with this individual while I only have 6 with this individual. In theory I should have the same as my father or close to his number plus maybe slightly more I would think? At this point I can’t be bothered with these non Haplotree worthy variants. They’re pointless to me and I don’t use them for patrilineal differentiation.
    Well thank you again. Since my 1st cousin's Big Y700 test is so recent I was bothered by the three "non-matching variants" we're assigned due to poor reads on ZS4024, A6148 and BY44298. I feel better now that I'm beginning to realize this is an anomaly in testing and that FTDNA doesn't feel confident enough in them to place them on their Haplotree. Of course I hope they are thrown out after manual review but if not at least I will discount them, only accepting the single private variant he has and the one I have (both are strong reads). Knowing that you have been assigned 4 non shared variants with your 1st cousin tells me this is a problem FTDNA needs to address! Between 1st cousins 1 or 2 non-matching variants is fine but assigning 4 or 5 due to poor reads is embarrassing.

    That is incomprehensible your father has 23 non-matching variants with your ~6th cousin while you have only 6 NMVs with that relative! How did they come up with that! Makes absolutely no sense!

    Like you I saw NMV differences when comparing Big Y500 to Big Y700. My 6th cousin and I had 4 NMVs when we both were Big Y500 but when I upgraded to 700 the NMVs went up to 8. After he upgraded to the Big Y700 we're at 5 NMVs. Our shared variants went up by over 100,000 which indicates the earlier Big Y500 didn't look at them.
    Last edited by Robert1; 10-16-2021 at 04:47 PM.
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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  9. #1655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert1 View Post
    Well thank you again. Since my 1st cousin's Big Y700 test is so recent I was bothered by the three "non-matching variants" we're assigned due to poor reads on ZS4024, A6148 and BY44298. I feel better now that I'm beginning to realize this is an anomaly in testing and that FTDNA doesn't feel confident enough in them to place them on their Haplotree. Of course I hope they are thrown out after manual review but if not at least I will discount them, only accepting the single private variant he has and the one I have (both are strong reads). Knowing that you have been assigned 4 non shared variants with your 1st cousin tells me this is a problem FTDNA needs to address! Between 1st cousins 1 or 2 non-matching variants is fine but assigning 4 or 5 due to poor reads is embarrassing.

    That is incomprehensible your father has 23 non-matching variants with your ~6th cousin while you have only 6 NMVs with that relative! How did they come up with that! Makes absolutely no sense!

    Like you I saw NMV differences when comparing Big Y500 to Big Y700. My 6th cousin and I had 4 NMVs when we both were Big Y500 but when I upgraded to 700 the NMVs went up to 8. After he upgraded to the Big Y700 we're at 5 NMVs. Our shared variants went up by over 100,000 which indicates the earlier Big Y500 didn't look at them.

    So like I mentioned I have 6 non-shared variants with my most likely 6th cousin once removed. 5/6 are Haplotree worthy variants. My father has 23 non-shared variants with the same individual. I don’t see how after 1 generation the values for these “variants” could go from being different to my 6th cousin once removed with my father to being similar again with me? Definitely inconsistent phylogenetic reads. Here are my father’s and my reads for these 18 inconsistent variants. All reads are Big Y-700 tests.

    BY27076: Myself: 20T 12G
    Father: 16T 3G
    BY27077: Myself: 12T 20C
    Father: 1A 2T 17C
    BY11295: Myself: 41C
    Father: 66C
    RS111213921: Myself: 36A 22T
    Father: 1A 24T
    A18919: Myself: 39A 25G
    Father: 1A 25G
    A20028: Myself: 38A 26T
    Father: 1A 25T
    RS111213924: Not in YFull database
    BY29444: Myself: 7T 12C 2DEL
    Father: 11T 1C
    BY43295: Myself: 23A 34G
    Father: 17A 1C 2G
    BY44298: Myself: 3A 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY151409: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3A
    BY151410: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY151411: Myself: 1T 1C
    Father: 3C
    BY151412: Myself: 1C 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY209070: Myself: 1T 1C
    Father: 3C
    BY209071: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3A
    BY227572: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY227573: Myself: 1A 1T
    Father: 3A
    I-DF29: ool009 Skane, Sweden 1930-1750 BCE

    Z58, Z59, Z2041, Z2039, Z2040, Z382, FGC24333

    S26361: VK532 Zealand, Denmark 200-375 CE

    S16414, FGC24354, FGC24357, FGC24356, S10350

    FGC75802: VK446 Funen, Denmark 800-1050 CE

    Y125947, S21197, BY149414, BY188003, BY188570,

    FT213710 Belgium

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  11. #1656
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    So like I mentioned I have 6 non-shared variants with my most likely 6th cousin once removed. 5/6 are Haplotree worthy variants. My father has 23 non-shared variants with the same individual. I don’t see how after 1 generation the values for these “variants” could go from being different to my 6th cousin once removed with my father to being similar again with me? Definitely inconsistent phylogenetic reads. Here are my father’s and my reads for these 18 inconsistent variants. All reads are Big Y-700 tests.

    BY27076: Myself: 20T 12G
    Father: 16T 3G
    BY27077: Myself: 12T 20C
    Father: 1A 2T 17C
    BY11295: Myself: 41C
    Father: 66C
    RS111213921: Myself: 36A 22T
    Father: 1A 24T
    A18919: Myself: 39A 25G
    Father: 1A 25G
    A20028: Myself: 38A 26T
    Father: 1A 25T
    RS111213924: Not in YFull database
    BY29444: Myself: 7T 12C 2DEL
    Father: 11T 1C
    BY43295: Myself: 23A 34G
    Father: 17A 1C 2G
    BY44298: Myself: 3A 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY151409: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3A
    BY151410: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY151411: Myself: 1T 1C
    Father: 3C
    BY151412: Myself: 1C 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY209070: Myself: 1T 1C
    Father: 3C
    BY209071: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3A
    BY227572: Myself: 1A 1G
    Father: 3G
    BY227573: Myself: 1A 1T
    Father: 3A
    I'm sure you're right, it makes no sense otherwise - that you and your father actually have about 5 Haplotree worthy variants with your ~6th cousin. Those 18 other wonky non-matching variants he "has" with your ~6th cousin couldn't magically mutate into oblivion from him to you! I also have 5 Haplotree worthy variants with my 6th cousin which makes mathematical sense considering we know our 5x great grandfather was born around 1680.

    I will insert images of the poor reads my 1st cousin and I have on SNPs ZS4024, A6148 and BY44298. I can't see how FTDNA can call them non-matching variants. I can't see how they can call them much of anything.
    My 1st cousin's reads:
    Screenshot 2021-10-14 11.50.07 AM.pngScreenshot 2021-10-14 11.48.22 AM.pngScreenshot 2021-10-14 11.45.34 AM.png
    Last edited by Robert1; 10-17-2021 at 04:12 PM.
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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  13. #1657
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    These were my poor reads of the same SNPs. I'm beginning to wonder if anyone has good reads on them.
    Screenshot 2021-10-14 11.40.26 AM.pngScreenshot 2021-10-14 11.36.06 AM.pngScreenshot 2021-10-14 11.32.32 AM.png
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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  15. #1658
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    There are thousands of surname-subclades that have two or more subclades on the FTDNA haplotree. This is due to Big Y700 testing. There are still people who don't understand that Y NGS testing (SNP discovery) has genealogical applications. It's not just about ancient haplogroups.

    I did research on the leaders in R1b and found so many that I set a higher criteria of three or more haplotree subclades for a surname. I'm up to about 250 just within R1b.

    I have a thread over in the R1b sub-forum on this.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....al-applictions

    The leader is the Stewart family of Scotland, the royal Stewarts, with 57 haplotree subclades. These are not just different lineages or testers, but only a count of public branches, which means there are at least two people with the SNPs.

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  17. #1659
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    My 1st cousin and I now share a more recent terminal SNP R-FGC65633, a brand new subclade of our previous terminal SNP, R-BY11186!

    We still are assigned a ridiculous 5 non-matching variants over just ~60 years between our births and our grandfather's in 1888. FTDNA did not throw out our strange weak reads on three wonky variants, ZS4024, A6148 and BY44298. I'm hoping I can get them to look at this again.
    Screenshot 2021-10-18 10.15.18 PM.png
     
    Estimated ancestry after reviewing Ancestry.com, 23&Me, FTDNA My Origins, Living DNA and known family history:
    33% English, 27% Scottish, 18% Welsh, 18% Irish, 4% German/Netherlands

    Y-DNA leads to Isle of Skye, Scottish Highlands: R1b>M343>L278>L754>L389>P297>M269>L23>L51>L151/L11>P312>Z290>L21/M529>DF13>L513/DF1>S5668>A7>Z21253> S7834 > S7828 > BY11203 > BY11186 (about 320-550 years old)

    MTDNA leads to Glamorgan, South Wales: K1a4a1f

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert1 View Post
    My 1st cousin and I now share a more recent terminal SNP R-FGC65633, a brand new subclade of our previous terminal SNP, R-BY11186!

    We still are assigned a ridiculous 5 non-matching variants over just ~60 years between our births and our grandfather's in 1888. FTDNA did not throw out our strange weak reads on three wonky variants, ZS4024, A6148 and BY44298. I'm hoping I can get them to look at this again.
    Screenshot 2021-10-18 10.15.18 PM.png
    Whenever I see something like this I wonder if its real or not. It could be, because its in the possible range.

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