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Thread: Donating and supporting early R1b

  1. #1
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    Donating and supporting early R1b

    I'd like to donate some money to discovering early branching of R1b1-L278*. In fact, this would apply to downstream M73 branches and confirming M73+ individuals. If I have some spare money over Christmas and the new year, this would be better spent than elsewhere since it is something that interests me, rather than determining yet another SNP below P312+.

    I did have a question regarding the current draft R1b tree. I cannot find any individual who is V88+ but has tested L389, and shows as L389-. I may be missing a piece of logic but shouldn't we solidify this to confirm the placement of L389? In any event I suppose that's why it's a draft tree.

    I do have a concern regarding the FTDNA interface. It appears like the prediction tool is erroneously showing green "confirmation" for some of these predictions. I am a little skeptical that some SNPs like M269 were even tested in some cases. Can anyone here refute or agree with my comment? If this is the case, I have lost faith in some of this a la carte testing.

    In any case, feedback or PM would be appreciated.
    Thanks

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ADW_1981 For This Useful Post:

     Joe B (11-27-2013),  parasar (11-27-2013),  Silesian (11-27-2013),  smal (11-27-2013)

  3. #2
    ADW_1981, there are three persons tested V88+ and L388/L389-: they are on the "R1b1 FTDNA Project", tested for Geno 2.0: Kasdin, Vass and Alvarez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    I'd like to donate some money to discovering early branching of R1b1-L278*. In fact, this would apply to downstream M73 branches and confirming M73+ individuals. If I have some spare money over Christmas and the new year, this would be better spent than elsewhere since it is something that interests me, rather than determining yet another SNP below P312+.

    I did have a question regarding the current draft R1b tree. I cannot find any individual who is V88+ but has tested L389, and shows as L389-. I may be missing a piece of logic but shouldn't we solidify this to confirm the placement of L389? In any event I suppose that's why it's a draft tree.


    I do have a concern regarding the FTDNA interface. It appears like the prediction tool is erroneously showing green "confirmation" for some of these predictions. I am a little skeptical that some SNPs like M269 were even tested in some cases. Can anyone here refute or agree with my comment? If this is the case, I have lost faith in some of this a la carte testing.

    In any case, feedback or PM would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    ADW_1981,
    That is a nice offer.
    Looking at the R1b1(xP297) DNA Project SNP page, it seems like the L389+/- split is occurring at the L25 level. I think FTDNA does not show the negative SNP results for Geno 2.0 so those L389- results are not shown for the R-V88 folks.

    N26020 R1b1 R-P25 L389+ Geno 2.0
    267597 R1b1 R-P25 L389-? Geno 2.0
    N93357 R1b1 R-P25 L389- Sanger sequencing

    Page 37 of Chris Morley's Experimental Y-SNP Phylogenies shows a predicted placement on the tree.
    Mike's Early R1b Phylogenetic Tree has L389 in a cloud.
    This is an interesting part of the tree.
    Last edited by Joe B; 11-27-2013 at 05:32 PM.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    ADW_1981,
    That is a nice offer.
    Looking at the R1b1(xP297) DNA Project SNP page, it seems like the L389+/- split is occurring at the L25 level. I think FTDNA does not show the negative SNP results for Geno 2.0 so those L389- results are not shown for the R-V88 folks.

    N26020 R1b1 R-P25 L389+
    267597 R1b1 R-P25 L389-?
    N93357 R1b1 R-P25 L389-

    Page 37 of Chris Morley's Experimental Y-SNP Phylogenies shows a predicted placement on the tree.
    Mike's Early R1b Phylogenetic Tree has L389 in a cloud.
    This is an interesting part of the tree.
    Of course Geno 2.0 doesn't show the negative results, but Vass is on the "Itai Perez spreadsheet" and you can see there his L388/L389-.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    I do have a concern regarding the FTDNA interface. It appears like the prediction tool is erroneously showing green "confirmation" for some of these predictions. I am a little skeptical that some SNPs like M269 were even tested in some cases. Can anyone here refute or agree with my comment?
    Here are the SNP results my paternal line, L2+, L1-, L135-, L196-, L20-, L209-, U106-

    As far as I know, they did not test or cofirm any of the upstream SNPs. The only confirmed positive SNP was L2. So I think you will need Big Y or FGC to check for the possibility of back mutations on any upstream SNPs. But even with those test, there can be uncertainty in some of the SNP calls for next generation sequencing. So Thomas Krahn's new company is the best option for anyone who wants certain confirmation of a specific SNP.

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     ADW_1981 (11-27-2013)

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    ADW_1981, there are three persons tested V88+ and L388/L389-: they are on the "R1b1 FTDNA Project", tested for Geno 2.0: Kasdin, Vass and Alvarez.
    Where in the Geno2.0 does it say this though? What is the SNP called? It can't be labeled as L388 or L389.

  9. #7
    I have denounced from many years that many M269+ of FTDNA (signed in green) are actually from their markers values something else: see Marchesi, before Mangino, DeMao was accepted after many letters of mine and now has his Geno 2.0, not published by the "R1b1 FTDNA project" but whose I have the data and now is also on the "Itai Perez spreadsheet" and so on.

  10. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Where in the Geno2.0 does it say this though? What is the SNP called? It can't be labeled as L388 or L389.
    Geno 2.0 tests L388 and L389 which are on the same plane and if you don't find them like + it means that they are -. If you suppose that there have been some no-calls, go to the "Itai Perez spreadsheet" and you can see.

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     ADW_1981 (11-27-2013)

  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    Geno 2.0 tests L388 and L389 which are on the same plane and if you don't find them like + it means that they are -. If you suppose that there have been some no-calls, go to the "Itai Perez spreadsheet" and you can see.
    Thanks, I did not test Geno 2.0 and wasn't aware of these additional repositories. Come to think of it, it makes sense that we would not display the negatives....

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    It is better to test for L389 the kits of Cluster A3 and A4, because they were not really tested for L389.

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