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Thread: 2018 Ancient Egyptian mummy genomes - Heavily Critique

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asante View Post
    The emphasis on Punt like the general region of "Ethiopia"/"Nubia"/"Ta-Seti" was simply the Homeland of the Niger-Congo speaking family;

    Original homeland of the Bantu up to 1500 A.D
    Dark shading: Possible ultimate origin of the Bantu
    Cross shading: Area of Bantu expansion into Kemet




    Bantu Migration Routes from Kush and the Island of Meroe



    Distribution of Y-DNA (male DNA) haplogroup E1b1a/E-M2 lineage



    Basically African history = Niger-Congo history.Got it!

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  3. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Basically African history = Niger-Congo history.Got it!
    The Niger-Congo speakers, Nilo - Saharan and Cushitic speakers were all integral to making ancient Kemet Africa's super civilization. Niger-Congo speakers are the most widespread and numerous population on the continent of Africa.

  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asante View Post
    I stand by the conclusive evidence that has been noted in my post with Kathryn Bards and SOY Keita's quotes. Stop, take a breath, acknowledge the ugly (for you) truth, and accept that they were black Africans.
    I'll take that as a no. I really don't care what colour they were. We can call them Black Africans if you like, Beyonce is black after all.

  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asante View Post
    The Niger-Congo speakers, Nilo - Saharan and Cushitic speakers were all integral to making ancient Kemet Africa's super civilization. Niger-Congo speakers are the most widespread and numerous population on the continent of Africa.
    Don't switch up now and pretend to be a pan-Africanist when literally couple posts ago you claimed Punt & Ancient Egypt as solely Niger-Congo civilizations.Carthage and Aksum I presume were also Niger-Congo speakers according to you and your ilk right?

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  7. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Don't switch up now and pretend to be a pan-Africanist when literally couple posts ago you claimed Punt & Ancient Egypt as solely Niger-Congo civilizations.Carthage and Aksum I presume were also Niger-Congo speakers according to you and your ilk right?
    ??? You are confused. The only thing that I stated to you in that regard was that Northeast Africa is the Niger-Congo homeland. When you asked who were the modern representatives of the ancient Egyptian civilization I recall listing Niger-Congo speakers, Nilo-Saharan speakers, and Cushitic speakers. I provided a specific example proving the Akan's ancient Egyptian ancestry. I attributed the civilization to Twa. I added that part prior to you posting your little retort btw.

    Either you're confused or you're disgruntled, and are trying to make/start petty ridiculous arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asante View Post
    That is dated, and debunked!



    It hasn't been debunked.

    A. The Naqada should be very similar to the Badari...both are predynastic Upper Egyptians. And Brace's predynastic Upper Egyptian sample is Naqada. I also don't get why you're upset. Naqada seems to be intermediate and looks greater than halfway to Somalia than to the Maghreb.

    B. There's no reason to just dismiss samples from India. Indians are Eurasian and Egyptians have a Eurasian component. Indians also have a sizable Basal Eurasian component which will probably be huge in Ancient Egyptians.

    C. Limb studies can never discredit cranio-metric studies.

    D. Dental studies don't show Ancient Egyptians having strong ties to Sub-Saharan Africans. So I don't know what you're talking about.

    Last edited by Arch Hades; 02-12-2019 at 12:03 AM.

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  10. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    Sounds like we will be getting Middle Kingdom autosomal DNA in the hopefully not too distant future, what do people predict it'll look like? It would be interesting to see how well predictions based on physical anthropology will do.

    I'm going to guess a lot of quasi-Natufian, some Anatolian, minimal Iranian, and a considerable chunk of Nilo-Saharan. But I won't be surprised to be completely wrong.
    Where did you hear this?

    Anyway I think they'll be a lot like the other genomes we have...but will.have a lower Iranian Neolithic component. Maybe instead of a 50% Natufians related component it'll be 60-70%.

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  12. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Where did you hear this?
    I can't find it again - someone emailed the authors of the Djehutynakht study asking about his Y haplogroup, and they replied that they had it but it wasn't published yet. The Djehutynakht study itself was only on mtDNA but they said they had 0.09x coverage over the entire genome, which I think is bad but not terrible? So sounds like there'll be autosomal DNA.

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    This is amusing, much like Ricky Bobby father's said:

    "Ricky if you ain't first, you last".

    Except this is:

    "If you ain't pale, your black."

    Never mind the readily available evidence that anyone with two brain cells and a tiny little bit of knowledge can get.

    https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...o.2003703.s013

    Western hunter-gatherers (WHGs)
    The Mesolithic La Braņa, Loschbour WHGs, the Upper Palaeolithic Villabruna individual, and the
    Neolithic KO1 individual, which has a genetic makeup of a WHGs [27], had dark skin and blue eyes
    based on their allelic states at the rs1426654, rs16891982 and rs12913832 SNPs [1,2,16,27]; an
    observation supported by their high probabilities of blue eye color inferred by Hirisplex in this study.
    The Upper Paleolithic Bichon from central Europe [15] had likely dark-skin and brown eyes (S1
    Table). The dark skin and blue eyes phenotype combination was likely very common among WHGs
    and it has been inferred for four out of five Mesolithic and Upper Paleolithic individuals in western and
    central Europe. Moreover, the allelic states at the h-1 defining positions suggest that La Braņa,
    Loschbour and Villabruna carried this haplotype. The haplotype determination was inconclusive for the
    remaining individuals due to alternative alleles and missing data at informative positions. All
    individuals from this group were predicted to have a dark hair color, where Loschbour, Villabruna and
    Bichon probably had black hair, whereas La Braņa and KO1 present similar probabilities of having
    brown or black hair (S1 Table).
    Dark skin=/=Black. But let's burst the bubble:

    Eastern hunter-gatherers (EHGs)
    The Karelian and Samaran Russian Mesolithic hunter gatherers [3] are currently the best
    representatives of a group of EHGs that migrated and admixed with WHGs to form SHGs. Mathieson
    et al [28] recently reported data from another Karelian Mesolithic hunter gatherer (sample I0211), with
    low coverage (0.136X across all captured SNPs), preventing pigmentation characterization. Hirisplex
    skin and hair color predictions suggest some opposing pigmentation patterns for the EHG individuals.
    The Karelian individual presents high probabilities of being brown-eyed (0.99), and having a dark hair
    (0.96). Without speculating about the genetic architecture of skin pigmentation, we suggest an
    intermediate skin-pigmentation phenotype for the Karelia individual, as it carried the ancestral allele at
    rs16891982 and the derived allele at rs1426654 (S1 Table). The presence of the rs1426654 light-skin
    allele, in addition to five additional C11-associated alleles at haplotype defining SNPs (S1 Table)
    suggests that the Karelian individual carried the C11 light-skin haplotype. The Samaran individual
    exhibits high probabilities of being blue-eyed (0.88), light hair shade (0.99); most likely being blond
    (0.75). The two skin pigmentation SNPs suggest that the Samaran individual was light-skinned.
    In
    summary, the EHGs had high frequencies of the light-skin variants and intermediate frequencies of the
    blue-eye variants.
    Samara Hunter Gatherer lived some >7000 years ago, and was Blonde haired, blue eyed and pale skinned.

    But wait there is more, and this one is a screamer!

    Scandinavian hunter-gatherers (SHGs)
    The SHG group includes the seven individuals from this study, the six Motala hunter-gatherers [2], and
    the Neolithic Ajvide 58 hunter-gatherer [29]. From SHGs sequenced in this study, we obtained an eye
    and hair pigmentation portrait for SF9, Hum2, SBj and SF12. No pigmentation predictions were
    generated for the SF11, Hum1 and Steigen samples, due to missing data at the relevant positions. Out
    of the four individuals with a Hirisplex prediction, both light and dark pigmentation phenotypes were
    observed. SBj and SF12 exhibited high probabilities of being blue-eyed (0.91 and 0.88, respectively),
    while SF9 and Hum2 were predicted to have been brown eyed. The high-coverage and high quality
    genome of SF12 carried two copies of the h-1 haplotype (defined by the homozygous state of all h-1
    haplotype SNPs, S1 Table). SF12 and Hum2 likely had dark hair (p=0.75 and p=0.99), while SF9 and
    SBj had light hair (p=0.58 and p=0.90). SBj presented slightly higher probabilities of being blond
    (0.52) than having black, brown or red hair.

    The common feature of the skin-pigmentation SNPs among these Scandinavian hunter-gatherers was a
    mix of light and dark skin alleles at either rs16891982 or rs1426654 (S1 Table). The Hum2 individual
    exhibited only derived haplotype-associated alleles at the 16 C11-defining positions, suggesting that
    Hum2 had at least one copy of this haplotype. SF9 and Steigen present derived variants at 8 and 13 out
    of the 16 screened positions, respectively. Even though both Steigen and SF9 lacked information for
    the core SNP rs1426654, Steigen only carried C11-associated alleles at rs1834640, rs2675345,
    rs938505 positions, and SF9 at rs1834640 and rs938505, which distinguish C11 from other SLC24A5
    haplotypes. SF12 exhibits a different haplotype, C9, compared to the other SHGs, and carries the
    ancestral allele at the core SNP rs1426654, indicating dark skin pigmentation.
    A Hirisplex eye and hair color prediction was obtained for the six hunter-gatherers from Motala [2,3].
    Interestingly, all individuals exhibited high probabilities of being blue-eyed (0.71-0.92). The Motala2,
    Motala3, Motala4 and Motala12 individuals most likely had a dark hair color (0.70-0.99), while
    Motala1 and Motala6 had a light shaded hair (~0.91); they may have been blond (~0.60). Similar to
    SF9, SF11, SF12, SBj, Hum1, Hum2 and Steigen, the Motala hunter-gatherers presented a combination
    of light and dark skin pigmentation alleles. Only Motala2 presented exclusively light-skin variants at
    both rs16891982 and rs1426654. Motala12 exhibited only haplotype-defining derived alleles at both
    the h-1 and the C11 associated positions. The combination of C11-associated alleles at the rs1834640
    and rs2675345 SNPs with a light-pigmentation allele at the core SNP rs1426654, suggest that Motala2
    and Motala4 individuals carried the C11 haplotype as well.
    So light skin and modern day European pale phenotype+blonde hair+blue eyes dates back to over 7000 years ago, that's the problem with Ancient DNA, when a new study comes out, it makes articles written prior to it, essentially meaningless. Also, most (90%+) the farmers sequenced to date, the people who moved back into Africa were also paled skinned with brown eyes. So there is that!

    One last thing, I have no dog on the Egyptian debate, but going by DNA evidence it is more than obvious that the descendants of most of the Ancient Egyptians are the modern day Egyptians, with the Copts being the closest to some of the Dynasties, I'm sure the Sudanese people would be closer to other Dynasties Royals.

    West Africans sure as hell are not close to any of the Ancient Egyptians, so you wasn't Egyptian Kangs and Shit! Well, actually the Malian Empire might be a better place to look at for royal ancestry in Africa.
    Last edited by jeanL; 02-12-2019 at 01:21 AM.

  14. #140
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    There's I think 5 official traditional kingdoms in Uganda and I don't know how many in Nigeria. Lesotho and Swaziland are both monarchies. There's kings for days in Africa. I look forward to the day they start testing and joining FTDNA projects.

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