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Thread: The African Origins of Civilization

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    The African Origins of Civilization

    Let's start off by saying that the second oldest (the oldest one being in South Africa) permanent structure on Earth is found in Sudanese Nubia;

    Affad 23



    "Affad 23" has an estimate range from 70,000 - 17,000 years ago. The Western recognition of the site is at 15,000 BC. This is over 5,000 years older than Golbekli Tepe.

    Many scholars believe that the river Nile is the source of the World's first farmers, and some have noted evidence of plant cultivation along the river valley around 15,000 BC. Following the spreading of the Neolithic outside of Africa with migrations that occurred after the end of Ice Age by the Natufians (12,500 BC);




    F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564

    "This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene, and diffused northward to the Levant and Anatolia beginning in the Mesolithic. Indeed, the rare and incomplete Paleolithic to early Neolithic skeletal specimens found in Egypt - such as the 33,000-year-old Nazlet Khater specimen (Pinhasi and Semai 2000), the Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton from the late Paleolithic site in the upper Nile valley (Wendorf et al. 1986), the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens. This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendents of sub-Saharan ancestral populations...... This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). "


    were several other successive migrations of Africans throughout the northern half of the continent and outside of Africa. One of the reciprocal affects of the climate change at the end of the Ice Age (13,000 BC) was the shrinking of the Nile River Valley that most of the Africans in the continent once coinhabited. Conversely new heavy rains vitalizing the adjacent Sahara desert to the West for a few millenniums triggered a migration of those Africans from the Nile River Valley to the Sahara. Lake Chad which was enormous at the time, and a river valley much like the Nile river and the African Great Lakes formed going through what would be Libya into the Mediterranean (shown in the map below). Scholars have speculated that Lake Chad and that river was the location of a major civilization. These Africans brought with them the Saharan Neolithic (that has been noted to actually date back to the Nile Valley to at least around 15,000 BC) or were simply bringing that earlier Nile Valley Neolithic culture that they were said to have had prior to desertification with newly cultivated Saharan Flora & Flauna.





    The different types of Africans who lived in the ancient Sahara during the fertile period included the Niger-Congo speakers, Nilotes, Cushitic/(Hamites) speakers and Dravidians (of India today). When these Africans migrated from the Sahara during it's different drying phases the spreading of post Ice Age civilization began.





    One of the pivotal archaeological facts proving this migration of Africans from the Sahara into South and Eastern Asia is the spreading of pearl millets, which originated in the ancient Sahara;


    That fact along with undeniable cultural/linguistic overlapping between Africans and Dravidians is further validation. The second phase of desertification during the 5th and 4th millennium B.C.E. brought a new wave of Africans (dubbed the "Ma Confederation" for the common linguistic references throughout these civilization to "the great mother" reflecting their African matriarchal origin) from the Sahara, and subsequently the spreading of Bronze age/Dynastic civilization followed as those Africans (which included Dravidian "Indians") migrated onto the Nile Valley (which prior to Narmer was a continuum of African cultures and people) and into the

    Aegean (the "mysterious" Palesgian populations);




    "DNA analysis has revealed that two ancient civilizations in Greece were related and shared common ancestors that travelled from modern day Turkey.
    Scientists believe that the Minoans and Mycenaens were descended from early Neolithic farmers who migrated from Anatolia to Greece and Crete."

    link

    A quick rehash on the early "Neolithic" farmers/Natufians of the Levant.

    "The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants... It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa.”
    (Brace et. al. (2006). The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form."


    and

    "Other studied populations belong to the old Mediterranean substratum, which has been present in the area since pre-Neolithic times. This study indicates a higher proportion of Iberian than Arab ancestry in Tunisian Berbers, which is of value in evaluating the evolutionary history of present-day Tunisians. Greeks seem to share genetic HLA features (Chr 6) with Sub-Saharans. The relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharans has been confirmed by other studies based on chromosome 7 genetic markers.
    Ann Hum Biol. (2010 Jul 29).HLA class I and class II polymorphisms in Tunisian Berbers.


    The Near East establishing the city state of Sumer-Mesopotamia;

    "First there is the Eurafrican .. In ancient times, this type is found in Mesopotamia and Egypt and may be compared with the Ombe Capelle skull. It is possibly identical with men who lived in the high desert west of the Nile in paleolithic times.." (-Penniman, T.K. "A Note on the Inhabitants of Kish.." Excavations at Kish, 1923-33 Vol 4. pp 65-72)


    Notice the ridiculous term "EuraAfrican" (to suggest degrees of white admixture) is used to describe indigenous African physical diversity in the older anthropological studies as noted earlier. Those Africans in the "High desert west"/Western Kemetic Saharan Desert were Niger-Congo speakers and Dravidians (who originated in Africa and now live in India) who have "narrow"/gracile facial features. Western scientist use to lie and claim that those gracile facial features indicated that they were mixed race. Those features also exist in the Cushitic populations. It was mentioned earlier leading Bio-Geneticist SOY Keita has dismantled those misconceptions that these indigenous groups are the result of admixture from Caucasoids. The study below conducted less than a decade ago confirms that those remains in the Egyptian western desert were in fact black-melaninated Africans.

    "..the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt(Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens....This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators..This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene... "
    --Ricaut and Walekens (2008) 'Cranial Discrete traits..' Human Biology, 80:5, pp. 535-564

    The ancient Mesopotamian remains are identical to those found in the Paleolithic-Neolithic "Egyptian" Western dessert, and we can further read that the "ancient Egyptians" of the Western desert were the same as modern day "Sub Saharan Africans". Notice the statement that the ancient Kemites are consistently regarded as "Negroid" by other researchers. This correlates with the Kushite foundation of the civilization that was noted by archaeologist John Baldwin. He was the archaeologist who first deciphered the Conifer script of Mesopotamia and was certain that Nubians founded this Western Asian civilization.

    "After deciphering the cuneiform script and researching ancient Mesopotamia for many years Henry Rawlinson (1810-1895) discovered that the founders of the civilization were of Kushite (Cushite) origin. He made it clear that the Semitic speakers of Akkad and the non-Semitic speakers of Sumer were both Black people who called themselves sag-gig-ga or “Black Heads.”

    [I]John Baldwin wrote in his book “PreHistoric Nations” (1869): “The early colonists of Babylonia were of the same race as the inhabitants of the Upper Nile.

    and

    Chandra Chakaberty “A Study in Hindu Social Polity” - “based on the statuaries and steles of Babylonia, the Sumerians were “of dark complexion (chocolate colour), short stature, but of sturdy frame, oval face, stout nose, straight hair, full head; they typically resembled the Dravidians, not only in cranium, but almost in all the details.”

    In modern geography the name Ethiopia is confined to the country known as Abyssinia, an extensive territory in East Africa. In ancient times Ethiopia extended over vast domains in both Africa and Asia."

    “It seems certain,” declares Sir E. A. Wallis Budge, “that classical historians and geographers called the whole region from India to Egypt, both countries inclusive, by the name of Ethiopia, and in consequence they regarded all the dark-skinned and black peoples who inhabited it as Ethiopians. Mention is made of Eastern and Western Ethiopians and it is probable that the Easterners were Asiatics and the Westerners Africans.” (History of Ethiopia, Vol. I., Preface, by Sir E. A. Wallis Budge.)


    The Indus Valley;

    The Neolithic era of the Indus Valley has yielded so called "Sub Saharan African" samples from E1b1 to E1a (Niger-Congo/Dogon)


    and East Asian civilizations. Another strong piece of evidence of the Sahara's pivotal role in early civilization is the fact the oldest known mummy nicknamed "Uan Muhuggiag"/"The black mummy" was found in the southern Libyan region, and this is what is said to have lead to the famed mummification practice later seen in dynastic Egypt.

    The abandoning of dynastic Nubia-Ta-Seti lead to the rise of Egypt's first dynasty by 3,100 B.C.E. as those Africans from Ta-Seti-Qustul moved from northern Sudan into southern Kemet.



    The Qustul incense burner depicted above was the first official proof of Ta-Seti (Land of the bow) also known as Nubia being the first monarchy, and civilization on Earth. The incense burner shows a pharaoh identical to what would later characterize Egypt prior to Egypt's founding dynasty by Mena Narmer. The artifact discovered by Keith Seal also indicated that 12 other Nubian kings before the one shown on the incense burner. These revelations put Nubia's origin hundreds of years on Narmer's successful conquest campaign north of the first cataract against the northern Egyptian Set worshipers. Some scholars place the origin of dynastic culture thousands of years earlier. According to Boyce Rensberger it was around the early 6th millennium that dynastic Ta-Seti is said to have came into existence. Boyce Rensberger reports in the 1979 NYtimes article about the discovery;

    "Nubian Monarchy Called Oldest"...."Evidence of the oldest recognizable monarchy in human history, preceding the rise of the earliest Egyptian kings by several generations, has been discovered in artifacts from ancient Nubia.".... "The first kings of Ta-Seti may well have ruled about 5900 BC. During the time of the fifth generation of their rulers, Upper (ie, southern) Egypt may have united and became a greater threat to Ta-Seti." - Boyce Rensberger​

    More recent discoveries within the last decade have produced more evidence of the first monarchies coming from Nubia. The earliest pharonic depictions have been found with the Nag el-Hamdulab Rock Paintings of Nubia.




    link

    The region of this discovery belonged to a culture coined by archaeologist as "A-group Nubian".

    This is one of the many reasons as to why Dynastic Egypt has been firmly rooted as African in origin by scholars;

    "Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )

    Writing

    The two Nubian depictions above are also, the first use of the hieroglyphic system that would later be credited to Egypt. It is the World's oldest form of writing. Even when the acknowledgement of the advent of writing is not given to it's proper Nubian source, and instead relegated to Egypt's first dynasty, the evidence still prove that writing was an African advent, and not Sumerian (which was a mere city-state in relation to older Nile Valley civilization);

    "The tomb is dated to c. 3250 BC and demonstrates that such writing (on bone and ivory labels) is a more advanced form of writing than was evident in Sumer at that date. It is argued, therefore, that the Egyptian writing system, which is in any case very different from the Mesopotamian, could not have been the result of influence from a less-developed system existing at that date in Sumer."

    "The Study of Writing Systems", in The World's Writing Systems, ed. Bright and Daniels, p.3

    Instead evidence implies that the opposite is true:

    He concluded his presentation by noting similarities between specific Egyptian and Mesopotamian objects and suggesting that perhaps there is an initial influence of Egyptian writing on Mesopotamia because there are signs on Mesopotamian objects that are only "readable" from the standpoint of the Egyptian language, but not the Mesopotamian language.

    "Too Much Stuff": Recent Finds in Predynastic Egypt

    By Mario Beatty, Ph.D.



    more detailed

    The alphabet comparison above proves that the origins of this very writing style ("English", French, German, Spanish etc etc) lacks it's own script! What we are currently using is Roman script, which ultimately came from Nile Valley writing systems.

    Dhar Titchitt - West Africa



    This under reported ancient West African (Mande) civilization is older than anything in Europe...When we look at the map above we see migrations going both East AND West. The proof in the pudding of this ancient Sahara being the source of post ice age civilization is what went on in the Western Saharan region in West Africa (southern-Central West Africa was uninhabitable swamp land until the 3rd millennium BC) by the Mande branch of the Niger-Congo speaking Africans. The successive Western Saharan civilizations of Dhar Tichitt, Wagadou (mistakenly called ancient Ghana), Mali and Songhai is proof of this legacy, and specifically the most ancient civilization of the region being Dhar Tichitt going back to the 3rd-2nd millennium BC;




    This civilization also vies for the one of the oldest forms of writing with the Mande Script being found on ancient Saharan rock art as ancient as the 4th millennium BC.


    The biological evidence (in all ranges) is clear that Africans have been involved in every major civilization. Africans are the common link. Then when things like linguistics and culture are taken into account it becomes indisputable.
    Last edited by Asante; 02-07-2019 at 12:41 AM.

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    Hopefully this one won't turn into a trollfest.

    OK Asante, rather than "many unidentified scholars supposedly think such and such", how about citation of actual sources? Note that Clyde Winters absolutely does not qualify. Real sources.

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    Cool. I edited in some more sources in the OP.

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    Well, this is just so out there I don't even know what to say...

    Well, just in terms of genetics, regardless, the absence of any SSA component in ASI or Dravidians essentially invalidates any recent migration theory from Africa. Onge is deeply ENA yet is phenotypically superficially similar to some Sub-Saharan African phenotypes. The first thing I would suggest is to not confuse genotype with phenotype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traject View Post
    Well, this is just so out there I don't even know what to say...
    Take it easy on me

    Well, just in terms of genetics, regardless, the absence of any SSA component in ASI or Dravidians essentially invalidates any recent migration theory from Africa.
    Actually the M1 lineage is shared between Cushitic and Indian populations;

    "The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighboring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighboring populations on this ancestral population."
    (Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt. Ann Hum Genet. 68 (Pt 1):23-39.)

    Brace 1993 while the sampling and conclusion were bunk, there were interesting findings in regard to the biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians. While the lack of the key pre dynastic group such as the Badarians (consistently found to be "Negroid") skewed the overall picture, the Naqada culture showed close affinity with Somalis, but not before the Dravidian-Indian sample;



    The closest match in the entire study was disregarded. The Dravidians were a key group in the hodgepodge of Africans that comprised ancient Nile Valley civilization (Egypto-Nubia).

    Onge is deeply ENA yet is phenotypically superficially similar to some Sub-Saharan African phenotypes. The first thing I would suggest is to not confuse genotype with phenotype.
    When people think that it suits the other argument I have seen that logic implied here quite frequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asante View Post
    Actually the M1 lineage is shared between Cushitic and Indian populations;
    There is no M1 in India.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asante View Post
    Take it easy on me



    Actually the M1 lineage is shared between Cushitic and Indian populations;

    "The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighboring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighboring populations on this ancestral population."
    (Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt. Ann Hum Genet. 68 (Pt 1):23-39.)

    Brace 1993 while the sampling and conclusion were bunk, there were interesting findings in regard to the biological affinities of the ancient Egyptians. While the lack of the key pre dynastic group such as the Badarians (consistently found to be "Negroid") skewed the overall picture, the Naqada culture showed close affinity with Somalis, but not before the Dravidian-Indian sample;



    The closest match in the entire study was disregarded. The Dravidians were a key group in the hodgepodge of Africans that comprised ancient Nile Valley civilization (Egypto-Nubia).



    When people think that it suits the other argument I have seen that logic implied here quite frequently.
    Are you implying that Cushitic speakers migrated to India?

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  12. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by thejkhan View Post
    There is no M1 in India.
    Hmmm;

    Curiously, these affinities between samples from Saudi Arabia and those from Indian Ocean islands near the African shores can be extended to the Saudi Q1a1 sequence Ar196 (Table S1), which has exact matches only with MA405 sample from Madagascar (Capredon et al., 2013), and to the presence in Saudi Arabia (Fregel et al., 2015) and Mauritius (Fregel et al., 2014) of different lineages belonging to the Indian branch (M42b) for which a deep link with the Australian M42a branch has been detected (Kumar et al., 2009). Other lineages present in the Saudi mtDNA pool, as M20, E1a1a1 or M7c1 point to specific arrivals from southeastern Asia. Interesting as these affinities and provenances are, the fact that all these

    However, after extensive phylogenetic and phylogeographic analyses for this marker (Metspalu et al., 2004; Olivieri et al., 2006; Sun et al., 2006; González et al., 2007; Pennarun et al., 2012), this supposed India to Africa connection was not found. The detection in southeast Asia of new lineages that share with M1 the 14110 substitution (Kong et al., 2011; Peng et al., 2011), gave rise to). M1 is found from Portugal and Senegal in the west to the Caucasus, Pakistan and Tibet at the east and, from Guinea-Bissau and Tanzania in the south to Russia at the north (Kivisild et al., 2004; Olivieri et al., 2006; Gonder et al., 2007; González et al., 2007, 2007; Zhao et al., 2009; Malyarchuk et al., 2010; Pennarun et al., 2012; Yunusbayev et al., 2012; Siddiqi et al., 2014) but, its highest diversity is found in Ethiopia and the Maghreb as the isolates detected at the borders are lineages derived from M1a branch in Russia and Tanzania and M1b branch in Guinea Bissau and Tibet. The geographic range of M20 and M51 largely overlaps, showing a common wide are. However, the actual representatives of M1, from the Levant to the Tibet, are derived lineages with ancestors in Africa. Until now, basal lineages of M1 have not been detected in any of the northern or southern hypothetical paths. - Carriers of human mitochondrial DNA macrohaplogroup M colonized India from southeastern Asia - Patricia Marreroa1 - April 2016

    (courtesy to XYman) The study also finds M1 across the Sahelian region of Africa, and into "Sub Saharan Africa" (Senegal), which is in accordance with the archaeological evidence regarding the peal milet in the OP.

  13. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by drobbah View Post
    Are you implying that Cushitic speakers migrated to India?
    The opposite..Africa is the origin point of everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asante View Post
    The opposite..Africa is the origin point of everything.
    Just re-read your post and found that you claimed Dravidians lived in Africa....

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