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Thread: U152: Comparison of the areas most mapped

  1. #1
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    U152: Comparison of the areas most mapped

    Recently we have obtained numerous and massive new results concerning certain area far away. I refer to the Netherlands (500 samples) and Sardinia (1200 samples) to which I add the Tuscany (the project 1000 Genomes) to the fact that this area has provided an adequate number of U152 and the samples obtained are referred to a historic very narrow area (to me it appears that the samples have been collected in town not known).
    Therefore I havedecided to update a table given long ago by Richard.
    I ask you what you think.
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    Last edited by Acque agitate; 11-28-2013 at 12:29 PM.

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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Acque agitate View Post
    Recently we have obtained numerous and massive new results concerning certain area far away. I refer to the Netherlands (500 samples) and Sardinia (1200 samples) to which I add the Tuscany (the project 1000 Genomes) to the fact that this area has provided an adequate number of U152 and the samples obtained are referred to a historic very narrow area (to me it appears that the samples have been collected in town not known).
    Therefore I havedecided to update a table given long ago by Richard.
    I ask you what you think.


    Percentuali U152+.jpg

    About the Tuscans tested: more than the half were women, and it seems to me that our women haven't the Y, but like the other women are XX.

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     Diana (11-30-2013)

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    Thanks Ratha,
    I update the table as soon as possible by acquiring data from the 1000 Genomes project.

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    I updated the file by entering 56 males for Tuscany (well it is to me).
    The old file has remained.
    I thank Rathna for quick viewing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acque agitate View Post
    Recently we have obtained numerous and massive new results concerning certain area far away. I refer to the Netherlands (500 samples) and Sardinia (1200 samples) to which I add the Tuscany (the project 1000 Genomes) to the fact that this area has provided an adequate number of U152 and the samples obtained are referred to a historic very narrow area (to me it appears that the samples have been collected in town not known).
    Therefore I havedecided to update a table given long ago by Richard.
    I ask you what you think.
    Thanks for this summary.

    It is interesting how much our knowledge of the geographical distribution of U152 subclades has changed in the last two years alone....

    - We knew that L2 made up larger percentage of U152 outside of Italy before, but now we know that L2 outside of Italy is primarily Z49 and Z367 in France and Britain.
    - There are still a lot of still hidden lineages for L2(xZ49,Z367) especially in Italy, Switzerland and the Rhine (so basically outside of France and Britain).
    - Z367+Z34+ seems to have a stronger presence in the Low Countries than outside of it.
    - Within central Italy, L2 was curiously much lower than U152(xL2) in the FTDNA samples, and now we know it is mostly attributed to Z36 and Z56.
    - Within Tuscan Z36, almost all of it is Z54/Z143 which looks like a regional group as it has been almost non-existent in FTDNA samples.
    - In central Italy, Z56 sub lineages seem to be more frequent in Z144/Z145/Z146
    - We didn't know what to expect in Sardinia, but now we know U152 is heavily Z192 (and probably higher with its parent PF6658/Z193). It could be that this is due to an initial founder effect from coastal Tuscany as Z192 is also important there.
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 11-28-2013 at 01:05 PM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Thanks for this summary.

    It is interesting how much our knowledge of the geographical distribution of U152 subclades has changed in the last two years alone....

    - We knew that L2 made up larger percentage of U152 outside of Italy before, but now we know that L2 outside of Italy is primarily Z49 and Z367 in France and Britain.
    - There are still a lot of still hidden lineages for L2(xZ49,Z367) especially in Italy, Switzerland and the Rhine (so basically outside of France and Britain).
    - Z367+Z34+ seems to have a stronger presence in the Low Countries than outside of it.
    - Within central Italy, L2 was curiously much lower than U152(xL2) in the FTDNA samples, and now we know it is mostly attributed to Z36 and Z56.
    - Within Tuscan Z36, almost all of it is Z54/Z143 which looks like a regional group as it has been almost non-existent in FTDNA samples.
    - In central Italy, Z56 sub lineages seem to be more frequent in Z144/Z145/Z146
    - We didn't know what to expect in Sardinia, but now we know U152 is heavily Z192 (and probably higher with its parent PF6658/Z193). It could be that this is due to an initial founder effect from coastal Tuscany as Z192 is also important there.
    I'll reply to my own post since it is a major observation that I forgot to mention:

    - Z36 forms a larger percentage of U152 frequency from western Switzerland to Tuscany than anywhere else and seems not to have been heavily involved with L2 in France or Britain. The Z36 samples from around the Rhine and Britain in the FTDNA project seem to be a product of American testing bias as it is absent in the GoNL study and an unpublished database from Britain that I have access to.
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 11-28-2013 at 01:23 PM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Just a quick check, so the Sardinia data included DF103, for example, or had data files to extract it? Great stuff.

  13. #8
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    Are 23407934 C>G and 23119461 G>A downstream of PF6658?
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    Its owner belonged to the sixth cavalry unit of the Equites Stablesiani. On the right side of the helmet cap it says ‘Stablesia VI'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    ...we know that L2 outside of Italy is primarily Z49 and Z367 in France and Britain...and an unpublished database from Britain that I have access to.
    Are you seeing the same split seen in this unpublished data, seen in the FTDNA data where Z49+ Z142+ is more British-French while Z49+ Z142- seems more German-French? Pie charts of FTDNA results here:
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ll=1#post19707
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 11-28-2013 at 04:35 PM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
    Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Thanks for this summary.

    It is interesting how much our knowledge of the geographical distribution of U152 subclades has changed in the last two years alone....

    - We knew that L2 made up larger percentage of U152 outside of Italy before, but now we know that L2 outside of Italy is primarily Z49 and Z367 in France and Britain.
    - There are still a lot of still hidden lineages for L2(xZ49,Z367) especially in Italy, Switzerland and the Rhine (so basically outside of France and Britain).
    - Z367+Z34+ seems to have a stronger presence in the Low Countries than outside of it.
    - Within central Italy, L2 was curiously much lower than U152(xL2) in the FTDNA samples, and now we know it is mostly attributed to Z36 and Z56.
    - Within Tuscan Z36, almost all of it is Z54/Z143 which looks like a regional group as it has been almost non-existent in FTDNA samples.
    - In central Italy, Z56 sub lineages seem to be more frequent in Z144/Z145/Z146
    - We didn't know what to expect in Sardinia, but now we know U152 is heavily Z192 (and probably higher with its parent PF6658/Z193). It could be that this is due to an initial founder effect from coastal Tuscany as Z192 is also important there.
    This fits with the Ghiotto 2013 papers stating tuscans came from southern german alpine areas into current tuscan lands 2800 years ago. IIRC it stated in the same paper that any anatolion connection was not earlier than 7600 years ago, meaning nearly 5000 years of living in "bavarian/swabian lands" . Does this not also fit with Hammer's picture of U152, that is, from central Germany to alpine Germany then into Italy!
    Throw in the legends that tuscans and raetics are same or similar peoples then .........

    We just need to change and say Tuscans are from Raetic and not Raetics came from Tuscans
    Last edited by vettor; 11-28-2013 at 05:24 PM.

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