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Thread: España y Portugal en modelos simples

  1. #1091
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    Asturias Galicia Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ PortugalRoyalFlag1830
    Quote Originally Posted by Empecinado View Post
    Interesting , do you have the coordinates for this sample?

    Thanks,


    Code:
    Spain_IA_Tartessian:I12171,0.0104,0.0143,0.0148,-0.0021,0.0204,-0.0013,0.0009,0.003,0.0203,0.0268,0.0025,0.0051,-0.0172,-0.0154,0.0048,0.0063,0.0046,-0.0054,0.0047,0.0006,0.0102,-0.004,-0.0038,-0.0183,-0.0018
    Spain_IA_Tartessian_scaled:I12171,0.118376,0.145221,0.055814,-0.006783,0.062781,-0.003626,0.002115,0.006923,0.041518,0.048839,0.00406,0.007643,-0.02557,-0.021194,0.006515,0.008353,0.005998,-0.006841,0.005908,0.00075,0.012728,-0.004946,-0.004683,-0.022051,-0.002155
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.5077"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,41.2
    Gaul_Velaux_IA,39.8
    Berber_EMA,11.6
    Roman_Colonial,7.4

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  3. #1092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    There are no Roman samples from Seville, these are the closest available (near Granada). I guess the brutal change shouldn't be shocking considering this map of Roman colonies


    It's also interesting they might harbour some small amount of North African ancestry, although I'm not sure if it's real or just G25+nMonte noise. As expected Steppe ancestry is very low, and WHG through the roof. Very different from modern Iberians, and even distinct from modern Basques, but this isn't news.

    Code:
    [1] "distance%=3.916"
    
             Tartessian_IA:I12171_scaled
    
    Anatolia_N,60
    WHG,21.2
    Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,16.6
    MAR_Taforalt,2.2
    Por la gran cercania que hay con el Norte de Africa, ese 2.2% pareceria mas real que solo ruido.
    Living DNA - 2021 Update

    Europe 96%

    West Iberia 49.1%
    South Italy 28.8%
    Scotland and Ireland 5.4%
    England and Wales 5.1%
    East Iberia 4.4%
    South Germanic 3.2%

    Middle East & North Africa 4%

    Arabia 2.2%
    North Africa 1.8%

  4. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post


    Code:
    Spain_IA_Tartessian:I12171,0.0104,0.0143,0.0148,-0.0021,0.0204,-0.0013,0.0009,0.003,0.0203,0.0268,0.0025,0.0051,-0.0172,-0.0154,0.0048,0.0063,0.0046,-0.0054,0.0047,0.0006,0.0102,-0.004,-0.0038,-0.0183,-0.0018
    Spain_IA_Tartessian_scaled:I12171,0.118376,0.145221,0.055814,-0.006783,0.062781,-0.003626,0.002115,0.006923,0.041518,0.048839,0.00406,0.007643,-0.02557,-0.021194,0.006515,0.008353,0.005998,-0.006841,0.005908,0.00075,0.012728,-0.004946,-0.004683,-0.022051,-0.002155
    ¿Podemos saber de dónde ha salido ese sample? No encuentro el I12171 en el datasheet del G25.

    Si el resultado que das es de Nmonte, es el mismo que el que da vahaduo con scaled usando la opcion ADD DIST COL:0.25X.

    Target: Spain_IA_Tartessian_scaled:I12171
    Distance: 3.9160% / 0.03916025 | ADC: 0.25x RC
    60.0 TUR_Barcin_N
    21.2 WHG
    16.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    2.2 MAR_Taforalt

  5. #1094
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    En Dodecad 12b tenemos practicamente todos los samples individuales antiguos de la península, supongo que sacados de aquí, que vienen ordenaditos por épocas históricas, pero sin etiquetar:

    https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/ancient_iberia.shtml

    Viene el I12171, y una media IA de todos ellos:

    Code:
    I12171,0.59,0.00,2.20,0.17,46.16,31.72,0.24,0.00,7.63,0.76,9.90,0.63
    Iron_Age_Iberia,3.02,0.85,2.28,0.28,54.07,27.53,0.82,0.19,2.53,0.23,7.39,0.80
    And some informtion about that sample:

    La Angorrilla (Alcalá del Río, Sevilla, Andalusia, Spain)
    Contact: Domingo C. Salazar-García, Álvaro Fernández Flores
    The archaeological site of La Angorrilla, which was excavated during the beginning of
    the 21st century, is located on the southwest of the municipality of Alcalá del Río (Sevilla,
    Spain). Its entire necropolis can be dated from the end of the 8th century to the middle of
    the 6th century BCE (93). This "Tartessian" (or "orientalizante") necropolis shows a
    variety of burial types in simple pits, mainly inhumations but a few primary and
    secondary incinerations are also present. The tombs present rectangular shape and they
    are oriented in west-east direction, a common feature amongst the necropolis of the
    Phoenician archaic period in the Iberian Peninsula (93).
    We analyzed four individuals from this site:
    Ÿ I12173/ROD.03/25; UE 2007: 700–500 BCE
    Ÿ I12171/ROD.03/25; UE 1457: 700–500 BCE
    Ÿ I12560/S-EVA17170, ROD.03/25; UE 404, Tibia: 700–500 BCE
    Ÿ I12561/S-EVA17196, ROD.03/25; UE 1205, Tibia: 700–500 BCE
    Labelled as:

    I12171 SW_Iberia_IA 7.90E-01 0.505 0.495 0.068
    Last edited by mokordo; 11-25-2021 at 11:35 AM.

  6. #1095
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    En el datasheet de vahaduo Dodecad 12b Ancient, vienen los 4, uno solo etiquetado como SW_Iberia_IA, no sé quien y como habrán hecho los 3 que no están en Eupedia.

    Code:
    I12171:Olalde_2019,0.59,0,2.2,0.17,46.16,31.72,0.24,0,7.63,0.76,9.9,0.63
    I12173:Olalde_2019,11.26,1.97,0,0,51.26,16.99,0,0,0,0,18.52,0
    Code:
    I12560:Olalde_2019,4.46,0,0,0,38.37,32.79,0,0,16.48,0,7.9,0
    SW_Iberia_IA:I12561:Olalde_2019,2.75,0,0,0,64.04,17.25,6.88,0,5.47,0,3.61,0

  7. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Code:
    Spain_IA_Tartessian_published:I12171,0.0104,0.0143,0.0148,-0.0021,0.0204,-0.0013,0.0009,0.003,0.0203,0.0268,0.0025,0.0051,-0.0172,-0.0154,0.0048,0.0063,0.0046,-0.0054,0.0047,0.0006,0.0102,-0.004,-0.0038,-0.0183,-0.0018
    Spain_IA_Tartessian_published:I12171,0.118376,0.145221,0.055814,-0.006783,0.062781,-0.003626,0.002115,0.006923,0.041518,0.048839,0.00406,0.007643,-0.02557,-0.021194,0.006515,0.008353,0.005998,-0.006841,0.005908,0.00075,0.012728,-0.004946,-0.004683,-0.022051,-0.002155
    Well, that's nice. Where was this gal hiding all this time? David decided he could convert her to G25 after all?

    Quote Originally Posted by mokordo View Post
    ¿Podemos saber de dónde ha salido ese sample? No encuentro el I12171 en el datasheet del G25.
    It's from the Olalde 2019 paper.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  9. #1097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Well, that's nice. Where was this gal hiding all this time? David decided he could convert her to G25 after all?



    It's from the Olalde 2019 paper.
    Yes, it comes from that study but I meant his G25 coordinates, because as you said they are not in the G25 ancient individuals datasheet.

  10. #1098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    There are no Roman samples from Seville, these are the closest available (near Granada). I guess the brutal change shouldn't be shocking considering this map of Roman colonies


    It's also interesting they might harbour some small amount of North African ancestry, although I'm not sure if it's real or just G25+nMonte noise. As expected Steppe ancestry is very low, and WHG through the roof. Very different from modern Iberians, and even distinct from modern Basques, but this isn't news.

    Code:
    [1] "distance%=3.916"
    
             Tartessian_IA:I12171_scaled
    
    Anatolia_N,60
    WHG,21.2
    Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,16.6
    MAR_Taforalt,2.2
    Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there Roman colonies in the Algarve? I think I see one near Huelva... But thought there was more. Shows one near Évora which is accurate. Definitely the majority are found in Andalusia at this period you're showing.. and I think it's only after the 2nd Punic war in the 3rd century bce where more are setup in now what's considered Portugal?
    Last edited by Luso; 11-25-2021 at 04:34 PM.
    History of the Algarve: Hidden Content

    Paternal Lineage- R-Z225: São Bartolomeu de Messines- em Silves, Portugal

    Maternal Lineage: H1c3: Estrela de Monchique- em Silves, Portugal

    Silves, Portugal: Hidden Content

  11. #1099
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    We can take into account that "colony" has a very specific sense for Romans, that defines one type of settlement.

    Anyway, I was playing with those Dodecad 12b ancient samples to do some models.

    Code:
    Iron_Age_Iberia,3.02,0.85,2.28,0.28,54.07,27.53,0.82,0.19,2.53,0.23,7.39,0.80
    Iron_Age_Greco-Roman,6.88,0.00,3.78,0.50,27.23,11.24,0.00,0.22,13.20,0.00,36.92,0.01
    Tartessian,4.77,0.49,0.55,0.04,49.96,24.69,1.78,0.00,7.40,0.19,9.98,0.16
    Suebi&Goths,8.14,1.57,1.38,0.81,30.69,41.81,0.47,0.20,1.03,1.07,9.23,1.14
    Canarian_Guanches,0.00,0.66,30.29,0.56,25.07,2.26,1.09,8.87,15.17,0.20,10.19,5.65
    If anyone can check this one, but better don´t use it at the same time than Suebi&Goth reference.

     
    Code:
    Iron Age Gauls,5.45,0.24,1.05,0.31,40.57,36.46,0.87,0.22,3.29,0.46,10.72,0.31


    And a more simple one, just to see if this reference shows the Barbarian input that we should find in NW Iberia. Guanche average don´t work is testimonial, because in this model doesn´t work a lot.
    Code:
    Roman Iberia,4.55,0.46,6.37,0.25,39.07,23.34,1.00,0.89,7.10,0.33,15.47,1.17
    Suebi&Goths,8.14,1.57,1.38,0.81,30.69,41.81,0.47,0.20,1.03,1.07,9.23,1.14
    Canarian_Guanches,0.00,0.66,30.29,0.56,25.07,2.26,1.09,8.87,15.17,0.20,10.19,5.65

  12. #1100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there Roman colonies in the Algarve? I think I see one near Huelva... But thought there was more. Shows one near Évora which is accurate. Definitely the majority are found in Andalusia at this period you're showing.. and I think it's only after the 2nd Punic war in the 3rd century bce where more are setup in now what's considered Portugal?
    At least 2 Roman colonies in South Portugal:

    Sur de Portugal:
    Pax Iulia (Beja)
    Scalabis /Colonia Scalabis Iulia(Santarem).
    But "Colony" as I said just name one type of Roman settlement.

    Edit:And what is now considered Portugal was shared in different Roman provinces and depending periods of Roman rule of the peninsula. Lusitania province was basically Center and South Portugal+ Extremadura and some parts of Castille or Andalusia.

    North Portugal was Tarraconensis province, and sometimes owned to a Gallaecia when that province was created by Diocecliano in III century. During that time, by the way, North Africa and Hispania shared a category superior to the provincial one called "diocese", collectively called "diocesis Hispaniarum".

    And the capital of all that diocese was casually, the capital of Lusitania, Emerita Augusta/Augusta Emerita, nowadays called Mérida, in Extremadura, Spain.
    Last edited by mokordo; 11-25-2021 at 05:17 PM.

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