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Thread: España y Portugal en modelos simples

  1. #71
    Global Moderator
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    Asturias Galicia Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ PortugalRoyalFlag1830
    Quote Originally Posted by sweuro View Post
    de los 5 visigodos de Girona que tenemos, 3 tienen unperfil germánico, uno parecec nativo ibérico y otro un perfil balcánicoa
    Comparándolos con los germánicos de Szolad o Collegno, yo diria que todos ellos eran mezclados
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~800AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6023"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA+Hallstatt,82.2
    Berber_EMA,10
    Rome_Imperial,7
    Levant_Roman,0.8

  2. #72
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    Madrid
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    Celtiberian
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    Spain
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    DF27>ZZ12_1>BY41285
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    K1b1b1a

    Spain Asturias Castile and León Basque
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Comparándolos con los germánicos de Szolad o Collegno, yo diria que todos ellos eran mezclados
    Hola, amigo:

    Sólo a título de comentario. Ya en el mes de Marzo, Lucasz los incorporó a sus modelos. Tomó como referencia básica el I12032 con un índice genotípico de 0.17. Y los modelos I12162 e I12163 como referencias secundarias. El primero tiene como proxys: Alemania Occidental, Francia y Sur de Holanda. En el modo mixto es prácticamente germánico en un 83 pct. Aunque las tres referencias pueden utilizarse para obtener un modelo genérico de visigodo. Yo utilizaría única y exclusivamente como proxy de visigodo el de referencia I12032 aunque se trate de un modelo de referencia individual para incorporarlo de manera temporal a cualquiera de nuestros modelos basados en medias de población. Tan sólo es una sugerencia. En esto tú eres el maestro. Un abrazo

  3. #73
    Registered Users
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    E-M81 (North Africa)
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    France-Ile-de-France France Bouches-du-Rhône France Lyon France Dauphiné
    Quote Originally Posted by sweuro View Post
    El componente north-african parece demasiado elevado, incluso los Franceses obtienen 3.6% cuando deberian tener cerca de 0%
    This is in fact because, whenever you mix components from different continents into a G25 model, you should use scaled data, as mentionned by Generalissimo, the author of the tool ("when modeling admixture from outside of Europe always check the scaled data!"), otherwise you can get this kind of issue (like here North African ancestry showing up wrongly for French/North Italians)

    And indeed, when using same model using same populations but with scaled data we can see that North African (as well as Levant_Canaanite_MBA) is not showing up anymore for French/North Italians:

    [1] "distance%=1.9592"

    French

    CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,35.6
    Nordic_BA,31.4
    Iberia_North_BA,18
    ARM_MBA,7.6
    GRC_Mycenaean,7.4


    [1] "distance%=1.6883"

    Italian_Bergamo

    GRC_Mycenaean,42.8
    CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,39.8
    Nordic_BA,13.4
    Iberia_North_BA,3
    ARM_MBA,1


    [1] "distance%=4.0043"

    Iberia_Southeast_c.5-8CE:I3575

    Canary_Islands_Guanche,35.6
    CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,22.4
    Iberia_North_BA,19.8
    ARM_MBA,10.4
    GRC_Mycenaean,6.4
    Levant_Canaanite_MBA,5.4


    [1] "distance%=3.0546"

    Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146

    Canary_Islands_Guanche,38
    Iberia_North_BA,22.4
    GRC_Mycenaean,21.6
    Nordic_BA,7.8
    CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany,4.2
    Yoruba,3.2
    ARM_MBA,2.8
    Last edited by E_M81_I3A; 10-17-2019 at 07:01 PM.
    G25 scaled:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content
    Commercial:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content


    Y Dna: E-M81-->CTS12227-->BY8900 : The oldest M81 known are Guanches 2000 BP
    MtDna: I3a1 : The oldest I3a1 known is VK164, Viking from Oxford, UK, 880-1000 CE.


    Hidden Content

  4. #74
    Global Moderator
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    Asturias Galicia Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ PortugalRoyalFlag1830
    Can you justify technically what you just said? Actually don't, I don't want this thread to become another annoying and pointless discussion about scaling.

    By the way, no, the author of nMonte isn't David. It's Huijbregts, and he never scales data. It was also Huijbregts who came up with this form of scaling, but he says it's so bad it should not be used. David tells people to use whatever makes sense to them.

    Now if you want to make your models, please go ahead, making a discussion on scaling discussion, no.
    Last edited by Ruderico; 10-17-2019 at 07:17 PM.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~800AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6023"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA+Hallstatt,82.2
    Berber_EMA,10
    Rome_Imperial,7
    Levant_Roman,0.8

  5. #75
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    I quoted David who can better than anyone else justify this technically so better you ask him directly…. But just looking at the results posted should be enough I guess.
    Last edited by E_M81_I3A; 10-17-2019 at 07:37 PM.
    G25 scaled:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content
    Commercial:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content


    Y Dna: E-M81-->CTS12227-->BY8900 : The oldest M81 known are Guanches 2000 BP
    MtDna: I3a1 : The oldest I3a1 known is VK164, Viking from Oxford, UK, 880-1000 CE.


    Hidden Content

  6. #76
    Global Moderator
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    Asturias Galicia Portugal 1143 Portugal 1485 Portugal Order of Christ PortugalRoyalFlag1830
    It really isn't.
    Please share models or don't bother with this discussion, because it will be deleted. This isn't a thread about scaling.
    Last edited by Ruderico; 10-17-2019 at 07:38 PM.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~800AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.6023"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA+Hallstatt,82.2
    Berber_EMA,10
    Rome_Imperial,7
    Levant_Roman,0.8

  7. #77
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    and here is the post from David :

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....281#post484281
    G25 scaled:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content
    Commercial:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content


    Y Dna: E-M81-->CTS12227-->BY8900 : The oldest M81 known are Guanches 2000 BP
    MtDna: I3a1 : The oldest I3a1 known is VK164, Viking from Oxford, UK, 880-1000 CE.


    Hidden Content

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    It really isn't.
    Please share models or don't bother with this discussion, because it will be deleted. This isn't a thread about scaling.
    Ok, understood... I just sent you a PM with an interesting sample.
    Last edited by E_M81_I3A; 10-17-2019 at 08:35 PM.
    G25 scaled:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content
    Commercial:Hidden Content Hidden Content Hidden Content


    Y Dna: E-M81-->CTS12227-->BY8900 : The oldest M81 known are Guanches 2000 BP
    MtDna: I3a1 : The oldest I3a1 known is VK164, Viking from Oxford, UK, 880-1000 CE.


    Hidden Content

  9. #79
    Registered Users
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    Barcelona
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    Iberian
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    España
    Y-DNA (P)
    E1b1a1-Z6015
    mtDNA (M)
    HV0f

    Spain Spain Extremadura
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Juan_scaled,0.097888,0.138112,0.031678,0.000323,0. 047086,0.001116,-0.003525,0.001615,0.02577,0.040456,-0.005196,0.007943,-0.017096,-0.016515,-0.002307,-0.015115,-0.012517,0.000253,-0.003771,-0.006628,0.000873,-0.005441,0.00037,0.005061,-0.003592

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Juan,0.0086,0.0136,0.0084,0.0001,0.0153,0.0004,-0.0015,0.0007,0.0126,0.0222,-0.0032,0.0053,-0.0115,-0.012,-0.0017,-0.0114,-0.0096,0.0002,-0.003,-0.0053,0.0007,-0.0044,0.0003,0.0042,-0.003
    En vez de decir hola enseño mis coordenadas G25.

    -Hola, buenos días.
    -
    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Juan_scaled,0.097888,0.138112,0.031678,0.000323,0. 047086,0.001116,-0.003525,0.001615,0.02577,0.040456,-0.005196,0.007943,-0.017096,-0.016515,-0.002307,-0.015115,-0.012517,0.000253,-0.003771,-0.006628,0.000873,-0.005441,0.00037,0.005061,-0.003592

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Juan,0.0086,0.0136,0.0084,0.0001,0.0153,0.0004,-0.0015,0.0007,0.0126,0.0222,-0.0032,0.0053,-0.0115,-0.012,-0.0017,-0.0114,-0.0096,0.0002,-0.003,-0.0053,0.0007,-0.0044,0.0003,0.0042,-0.003
    ´
    -¿?¿?

    Que quiero que lo pases por tu modelo si es posible y enjoy.
    Last edited by JJJ; 11-18-2019 at 08:21 PM.

  10. #80
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    R1b-L21

    Catalonia Galicia Spain
    Hola, aquí mis resultados. Soy mitad gallego (de la zona este) y mitad alicantino, sin descartar algo de antepasados genoveses (Liguria). Curiosamente aun siendo la mitad de mi familia de la otra punta de España la mayor proximidad la tengo a Murcia, que no queda lejos de donde viene mi familia paterna, y en los modelos de mezcla me sale siempre más afinidad con Castilla y León y poca con Galicia, lo cual puede indicar que la zona de montaña al este (cerca del Bierzo leonés) tenga una genética más leonesa que gallega.


    Global25

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jordi_scaled,0.114961,0.153345,0.040729,-0.00646,0.045239,-0.006693,-0.0047,0.008077,0.025975,0.035172,0.001624,0.00854 2,-0.015758,0.000963,0.011808,-0.009149,-0.011083,-0.00152,0.008799,-0.00988,0.00025,0.001237,0.001356,-0.005181,0.003233

    ,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
    Jordi,0.0101,0.0151,0.0108,-0.002,0.0147,-0.0024,-0.002,0.0035,0.0127,0.0193,0.001,0.0057,-0.0106,0.0007,0.0087,-0.0069,-0.0085,-0.0012,0.007,-0.0079,0.0002,0.001,0.0011,-0.0043,0.0027



    Distance: 4.5106% / 0.04510634
    Aggregated
    57.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    26.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    12.0 WHG
    2.2 MAR_Iberomaurusian
    1.2 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N


    Eurogenes K13

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 41.26
    2 West_Med 26
    3 East_Med 16.44
    4 Baltic 10.2
    5 Red_Sea 3.87
    6 Northeast_African 1.35
    7 Sub-Saharan 0.61
    8 Oceanian 0.27

    Single Population Sharing:
    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Spanish_Murcia 3.22
    2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 3.75
    3 Spanish_Valencia 3.93
    4 Portuguese 4.2
    5 Spanish_Extremadura 4.75
    6 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 4.95
    7 Spanish_Cataluna 4.98
    8 Spanish_Galicia 5.43
    9 Spanish_Andalucia 5.77
    10 Spanish_Aragon 6.24
    11 Spanish_Cantabria 6.62
    12 Southwest_French 8.84
    13 North_Italian 10.85
    14 French 11.29
    15 Tuscan 16.17
    16 South_Dutch 17.42
    17 West_German 17.72
    18 French_Basque 18.27
    19 Southeast_English 21.01
    20 Southwest_English 21.45





    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 79.1% Spanish_Murcia + 20.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.16
    2 78.3% Spanish_Murcia + 21.7% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.17
    3 99.1% Spanish_Murcia + 0.9% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.17
    4 99.5% Spanish_Murcia + 0.5% Saudi @ 3.21
    5 92.3% Spanish_Murcia + 7.7% Portuguese @ 3.21

    Eurogenes K15

    Admix Results (sorted):
    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 33.05
    2 North_Sea 22.28
    3 West_Med 20.12
    4 East_Med 13.97
    5 Red_Sea 3.99
    6 Baltic 3.35
    7 Northeast_African 1.64
    8 Eastern_Euro 1.24

    Single Population Sharing:
    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Spanish_Murcia 5.11
    2 Spanish_Extremadura 6.5
    3 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 6.64
    4 Spanish_Valencia 6.88
    5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 7
    6 Spanish_Cataluna 7.06
    7 Spanish_Aragon 7.23
    8 Portuguese 7.59
    9 Spanish_Andalucia 8.17
    10 Spanish_Cantabria 8.53
    11 Spanish_Galicia 9.41
    12 Southwest_French 10.32
    13 North_Italian 11.98
    14 French 13.16
    15 French_Basque 16.06
    16 Tuscan 16.95
    17 South_Dutch 17.43
    18 Southwest_English 19.76
    19 West_German 19.99
    20 Southeast_English 20.64


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 94% Spanish_Murcia + 6% French_Basque @ 5.02
    2 88% Spanish_Murcia + 12% Spanish_Aragon @ 5.06
    3 98.7% Spanish_Murcia + 1.3% Orcadian @ 5.1
    4 98.7% Spanish_Murcia + 1.3% West_Scottish @ 5.1
    5 99% Spanish_Murcia + 1% Irish @ 5.11

  11. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Empecinado For This Useful Post:

     Defski (11-20-2019),  Endovelicus (11-25-2019),  Helgenes50 (11-19-2019),  JJJ (11-19-2019),  Ruderico (11-19-2019)

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