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Thread: España y Portugal en modelos simples

  1. #1101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Well, that's nice. Where was this gal hiding all this time? David decided he could convert her to G25 after all?
    Yeah we went years without it for whatever reason, but in the end it's quite an unsurprising sample, unless that IBM is real, which it may or may not be. Otherwise genetically he just looks like another "proto-Basque" or something of the sorts.
    David also converted I3757 (the third Iberia_North_IA sample) but I had to ask him to do so, although he did say the resolution was low.


    Quote Originally Posted by Luso View Post
    Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there Roman colonies in the Algarve? I think I see one near Huelva... But thought there was more. Shows one near Évora which is accurate. Definitely the majority are found in Andalusia at this period you're showing.. and I think it's only after the 2nd Punic war in the 3rd century bce where more are setup in now what's considered Portugal?
    There were Roman settlements everywhere eventually, what you see there it's just the colonia by time of Trajan. That said the south and all the coastline was very heavily Romanised. The interior north less so because it was poor (it still is) and they didn't have as much incentive to invest in it. Some things don't change even after nearly 2000 years.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.5077"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,41.2
    Gaul_Velaux_IA,39.8
    Berber_EMA,11.6
    Roman_Colonial,7.4

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  3. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    David also converted I3757 (the third Iberia_North_IA sample) but I had to ask him to do so, although he did say the resolution was low.
    Nice, would you mind posting the coords for that one, too? I found the CvG coords for it but not the regular G25 ones.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

  4. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Nice, would you mind posting the coords for that one, too? I found the CvG coords for it but not the regular G25 ones.
    Sure. In CvG David didn't have I3758 (just 7 and 9), which has been in G25 since the samples were initially converted. I didn't get why he did it this way, but he eventually passed me the data. I3758 doesn't exactly plot like the others do in CvG, he seems more "autochthonous"/Basque.

    Code:
    Iberia_North_IA:I3757,0.0099,0.0141,0.0157,0.0055, 0.018,0.0014,-0.0043,0.006,0.0162,0.0186,0.0024,0.004,-0.0187,-0.014,0.0009,-0.0106,-0.0044,0.0067,0.0067,-0.0004,0.0038,0.0128,-0.0081,0.0077,-0.0014
    Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757,0.112685,0.14319,0.059208,0.017765,0.055395,0.003904,-0.010105,0.013846,0.033133,0.033896,0.003897,0.005995,-0.0278,-0.019267,0.001221,-0.014054,-0.005737,0.008488,0.008422,-5e-04,0.004742,0.015828,-0.009983,0.009278,-0.001676
    CvG I3758
    Code:
    Iberia_North_IA:I3758	0.0153	0.0277	-0.001	0.0163	-0.0042	0.0017	0.0017	0.0035	0.0021	-0.0048	-0.0042	-0.0011	0.0066	0.0046	0.0031	0.004	0.0042	-0.003	-0.0033	-0.0001	-0.0051	-0.006	0.001	0.001	-0.0049
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.5077"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,41.2
    Gaul_Velaux_IA,39.8
    Berber_EMA,11.6
    Roman_Colonial,7.4

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  6. #1104
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    Posted by Matt on Eurogenes blog

    https://www.academia.edu/61630332/La...rary_structure

    "Late Roman tombs at Sanxo Llop (Gandia, Valencia): exogamy and kinship in a particular funerary structure" - "INTRODUCTION: Sanxo Llop is a necropolis from Late Antiquity excavated on the banks of river Serpis in Gandia (Fig. 1C). Among the burials, samples GOG34 and GOG35 appeared in a peculiar double sepulchre in a silo (Fig. 1A).The burial is radiocarbon dated to the 660-760AD period. Preservation of aDNA in both petrous bones was good (12-18%), and thegenomes were sequenced tocoverages of 0.26X and 0.36X respectively."

    "Standard analyses like ADMIXTURE and PCA revealed that both individuals display a significant amount of North African genomic ancestry at a time predating the Islamic conquest.However uniparental markers did not hint in this direction. As it can be seen in the ADMIXTURE plot (Fig. 4), the father carries twice as much North African ancestry (around 10%) as the daughter (around 5%). This may be taken as an indication that the unknown mother did not contribute any North African ancestry to the daughter, which in turn suggests genetic heterogeneity in the post-Roman population of Mediterranean Iberia. This becomes obvious looking at the PCA because of the amount of other Roman individuals plotting in a no man’s land between Europeans and North Africans (Fig. 3). Furthermore, simulations allow for the possibility that the mother was of Italian or Sardinian descent."
    [1] "distance%=3.2865"

    Ajeje Brazorf

    EEF,54.6
    CHG,14.2
    MIDDLE_EAST,10.2
    IRAN_N,8.8
    ANE,6.4
    WHG,4.2
    TAFORALT,1.6

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  8. #1105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    Posted by Matt on Eurogenes blog

    https://www.academia.edu/61630332/La...rary_structure

    "Late Roman tombs at Sanxo Llop (Gandia, Valencia): exogamy and kinship in a particular funerary structure" - "INTRODUCTION: Sanxo Llop is a necropolis from Late Antiquity excavated on the banks of river Serpis in Gandia (Fig. 1C). Among the burials, samples GOG34 and GOG35 appeared in a peculiar double sepulchre in a silo (Fig. 1A).The burial is radiocarbon dated to the 660-760AD period. Preservation of aDNA in both petrous bones was good (12-18%), and thegenomes were sequenced tocoverages of 0.26X and 0.36X respectively."

    "Standard analyses like ADMIXTURE and PCA revealed that both individuals display a significant amount of North African genomic ancestry at a time predating the Islamic conquest.However uniparental markers did not hint in this direction. As it can be seen in the ADMIXTURE plot (Fig. 4), the father carries twice as much North African ancestry (around 10%) as the daughter (around 5%). This may be taken as an indication that the unknown mother did not contribute any North African ancestry to the daughter, which in turn suggests genetic heterogeneity in the post-Roman population of Mediterranean Iberia. This becomes obvious looking at the PCA because of the amount of other Roman individuals plotting in a no man’s land between Europeans and North Africans (Fig. 3). Furthermore, simulations allow for the possibility that the mother was of Italian or Sardinian descent."
    We have already discussed this in other threads. A small percentage of NA admixture shows up during the Iron Age (we assume phoenocians and carthaginians have something to do with it) and gradually increases. It reaches a peak during roman times (I think there are samples from Jaén or Granada with very high percentages) and then begins to decline quite abruptly with the crisis of the Later Roman Empire. On average it is paradoxical that the NA admixture of andalusian muladis is still lower than the hispanorroman population 500 years before (although we know they were an heterogeneous group).

    The last years of the Roman Empire probably were a nightmarish combination of plagues, violence due to civil wars and revolts (bagaudas), pillage and decay. Population shrinks and scatters and the gaps are eventually filled up by more people coming from the north and without noticeable NA admixture. The Reconquista and the migration to America are just more events that contribute to the same pattern.
    Last edited by Shadogowah; 11-26-2021 at 03:20 PM.
    Do you have a question or topic about genetics in Spain and/or prefer to use Spanish language? Visit the new subforum!

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  10. #1106
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    Interesting but unsurprising, it follows what was shown in Olalde's study that basically NA-related ancestry pre-dates 711AD by a few centuries. It even seems to have been significantly higher in the past than it is today, which should be expected since the Reconquista replaced ancient southerners with northerners (plus Basques in Spain). Going by the PCA and ADMIXTURE graphs most of these post-Roman individuals seem to have a lot more NA-related ancestry than moderns do, even than us westerners. I suspect us not having Basque ancestry contributes to us having more NA-related ancestry than continental Spanish, bar Galicians who are virtually like us anyway.

    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.5077"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,41.2
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    Berber_EMA,11.6
    Roman_Colonial,7.4

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  12. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Sure. In CvG David didn't have I3758 (just 7 and 9), which has been in G25 since the samples were initially converted. I didn't get why he did it this way, but he eventually passed me the data. I3758 doesn't exactly plot like the others do in CvG, he seems more "autochthonous"/Basque.

    Code:
    Iberia_North_IA:I3757,0.0099,0.0141,0.0157,0.0055, 0.018,0.0014,-0.0043,0.006,0.0162,0.0186,0.0024,0.004,-0.0187,-0.014,0.0009,-0.0106,-0.0044,0.0067,0.0067,-0.0004,0.0038,0.0128,-0.0081,0.0077,-0.0014
    Iberia_North_IA_scaled:I3757,0.112685,0.14319,0.059208,0.017765,0.055395,0.003904,-0.010105,0.013846,0.033133,0.033896,0.003897,0.005995,-0.0278,-0.019267,0.001221,-0.014054,-0.005737,0.008488,0.008422,-5e-04,0.004742,0.015828,-0.009983,0.009278,-0.001676
    CvG I3758
    Code:
    Iberia_North_IA:I3758	0.0153	0.0277	-0.001	0.0163	-0.0042	0.0017	0.0017	0.0035	0.0021	-0.0048	-0.0042	-0.0011	0.0066	0.0046	0.0031	0.004	0.0042	-0.003	-0.0033	-0.0001	-0.0051	-0.006	0.001	0.001	-0.0049
    Since when do have you that sample in G25?

  13. #1108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mokordo View Post
    Since when do have you that sample in G25?
    I3757? For years, I thought I had posted it somewhere when David passed me the coordinates. I have been including it in my Iberian IA averages since then.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.5077"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,41.2
    Gaul_Velaux_IA,39.8
    Berber_EMA,11.6
    Roman_Colonial,7.4

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  15. #1109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    I3757? For years, I thought I had posted it somewhere when David passed me the coordinates. I have been including it in my Iberian IA averages since then.
    I´have seen just now when you posted it, I didn´t see it before.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post671003

    Poor quality to include it in the datasheet, isn´t it?

  16. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mokordo View Post
    I´have seen just now when you posted it, I didn´t see it before.

    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post671003

    Poor quality to include it in the datasheet, isn´t it?
    I don't know, he doesn't seem very different from the other Iberia_North_IA samples so it probably doesn't hurt to include him.
    YDNA E-Y31991>PF4428>Y134097>Y134104>Y168273>FT17866 (TMRCA ~1000AD) - Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1690 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal - Stonemason, miller.
    mtDNA H20 - Monica Vieira, b. circa 1700 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Hidden Content
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=1.5077"

    Ruderico

    Iberia_IA,41.2
    Gaul_Velaux_IA,39.8
    Berber_EMA,11.6
    Roman_Colonial,7.4

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