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Thread: PF7263 From Iraq

  1. #1
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    PF7263 From Iraq

    So I completed my FTDNA Y-111 markers test and after plugging it into nevgen got a predicted haplogroup of J-PF7263. My question is what exactly is the history of PF7263 and is it native to Iraq? Also what should I do now in regards to testing?

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    Yes, it is native to northern Iraq and the surrounding area. It is very old. You can see it on a tree at https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS4416/ where PF7263 is the same as J-ZS4416.

    Sorry but I can't advise on further testing. FTDNA's BigY is very expensive, takes a long time, and is hard to interpret. Many people buy BigY and send the results to www.yfull.com for a better interpretation. It take a long time too.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    Yes, it is native to northern Iraq and the surrounding area. It is very old. You can see it on a tree at https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-ZS4416/ where PF7263 is the same as J-ZS4416.

    Sorry but I can't advise on further testing. FTDNA's BigY is very expensive, takes a long time, and is hard to interpret. Many people buy BigY and send the results to www.yfull.com for a better interpretation. It take a long time too.
    There is also some Balkanites who are J1-PF7263, and some haplotypes are far from each other. Furthermore, on YFull there is two samples from Italy on parallel clades. Curious to hear if you have a theory on how it came to the Balkans/Europe...

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    The branches of J1-PF7263 have a TMRCA of 3400 years, so I would assume dispersal during the Bronze or Iron Ages.

  5. #5
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    J-PF7263 is confirmed to be the predominant J1 lineage of feyli tribes in ilam. Literally every J1 match that ive seen so far has belonged exclusively to J-PF7263. Elsewhere its found in europe, amongst ashkenazi jews, central asians. Its really hard to say where it orginated without more archaeogenetic findings related to Y-DNA in the zagros. If i had to speculate I would assume its branch off chalocolithic-iranian expansions, which spread J1 around west-asia. PF7263 would remain however isolated in the zagros mountains, until it would be spread west-wards into the levant by kassites and related peoples. Which then would spread into europe, via ashkenazi jews, after the exile of hebrews by the romans.

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  7. #6
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    Interesting, nobody spoke about one work about Iraq Y-DNA with high percent of J1 PF7263 haplogroup. It's "A glimpse at the intricate mosaic of ethnicities from Mesopotamia: Paternal lineages of the Northern Iraqi Arabs, Kurds, Syriacs, Turkmens and Yazidis". There was 500 participants from five different ethnic groups, but J1 PF7263 shows only in two group, Kurds and Turkmens. It' a little different from FTDNA where we have also Arabs from the north (around Nineveh if I remember well) and from south. But when it shows, it shows good.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5669434/

    From 110 Kurds, 17 was J1 and from that number 7 was J1 PF7263 (it' s about 6.3% if I'm good in math). With this number we have just three different genotypes:

    N- 393-390-19-391-385ab-439-389I-392-389II-458-437-448-H4-456-438-635

    1) 12-25-13-10-11/19-12-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21 (Kr-M-028; 033; 039; 092)
    2) 12-25-13-11-12/18-12-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21 (Kr-M-057)
    3) 12-25-13-10-12/19-12-12-11-30-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21 (Kr-M-066; 070)

    (I hope I didn't miss any number, but if you see some mistake please correct me)

    From 110 Turkmens, 13 was J1 and from that number 5 was J1 PF7263 (about 4.5% of all Turkmens). Differently from Kurds in this paper Turkmens have more diverse J1 PF7263 haplotypes:

    N- 393-390-19-391-385ab-439-389I-392-389II-458-437-448-H4-456-438-635

    1) 12-25-14-11-12/18-11-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21 (Tm-M-020)
    2) 12-25-13-12-12/18-12-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21 (Tm-M-023)
    3) 12-25-13-11-12/18-12-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21 (Tm-M-045)
    4) 12-25-13-11-12/19-13-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-22 (Tm-M-067)
    5) 12-25-13-10-12/18-12-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21 (TM-M-080)

    Few things is interesting in this paper. All PF7263 participants have DYS390-25 which is little unusual. Most FTDNA participants have value 24 on that marker. Value 25 is mostly attested in BY38105 branch of PF/7263 so I have suspicion that they could be that branch (but it's quite uncertain). Second, in Kurdish group value 11 on DYS385a is very usual but in FTDNA table we don't have almost nobody. This value shows only in two participants from Saudi Arabia (or one from Saudi Arabia and one from Yemen)who belong ZS10589 branch. So this is quite unusual and characteristic for this samples

    In Turkmen group we don't have such unusual values except in 023 sample and it's DYS391 value (12 instead of more usual 11 or in most case 10) but I don't think that I can drove some deeper insight from this.

    And now something really intheresting. If we take value DYS385ab-11/19 as some differential criteria, most closer match with them is one sample from Xinjiang, China. One Uighur have following genotype:

    393-390-19-391-385ab-439-389I-392-389II-458-437-448-H4-456-438-635

    13-24-13-10-11/19-13-12-11-29-18-14-20-10-15-10-21

    As you can see, biggest differences are on DYS393 which is +1 (13 instead of 12) and DYS390 which is -1 (24 instead of 25) in regard to Kurdish haplotypes. Even with that differences I believe that this genotypes are in close relationship. This genotype can be found in paper:"Genetic polymorphism of 17 chromosomal STRs in Kazakh and Uighur populations from Xinjiang, China". He is the firs Uighur on the list.

    https://link.springer.com/article/10...414-013-0948-y

    Even more interesting, this is not the only one PF7263 from Xinjiang, China. There is one more, but not in science paper but as contribution of Zhu Bofeng. This time there's a Mongolian from Xinjiang, and his genotype is:

    393-390-19-391-385ab-439-389I-392-389II-458-437-448-H4-456-438-635

    12-25-13-10-12/17-12-12-11-29-18.2-14-20-10-15-10-21

    Combination on DYS385ab-12/17 is quite rare. It's mostly present in Central/South Iraq, Mediterranean countries, coastal Tureky, Greece, Italy, Spain and surprisingly in Sweden.

    This is the screen shot from YHRD matches on seven markers


    Untitled.png

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  9. #7
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    Hi Folks! We have new Azerbaijani (Turkic) sample under same subclade. OnlY 37 markers and no matches at 25 and 37 level.
    FTDNA order
    12 25 13 11 12-18 10 15 12 12 11 28 18 8-8 11 11 25 14 20 29 15-15-15-18 10 9 19-22 15 14 17 17 38-38 13 10
    Most distant known ancestor Qaraqoyunlu Turkmen Emir Saad, owner of the Chuxur Saad (Erivan province), Chieftain of the Turkoman Saadlu tribe (Black Sheep Turkomans) 14th century. Buried here : Hidden Content


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  11. #8
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    J1 PF7263

    Hi Ilgar

    I suppose this is not 294186 Kayihan? On J1 FTDNA project he is still unconfirmed M267.

    I'm wondering if new participant took BigY. We have one PF7263>BY38105>BY102071 but without additional informations.Or this is another Azerbaijani J1 PF7263?

    Untitled.png

  12. #9
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    No we ordered only Y37 for him. His kit number is IN75534 Cavadzade
    Most distant known ancestor Qaraqoyunlu Turkmen Emir Saad, owner of the Chuxur Saad (Erivan province), Chieftain of the Turkoman Saadlu tribe (Black Sheep Turkomans) 14th century. Buried here : Hidden Content


    Azerbaijani Turkic Project
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  14. #10
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    So this is interesting. We have four Azerbaijani PF7263 samples. First Veliaga-294186, second Cavadzade, third NN from Azerbaijan and fourth from YHRD database. This haplotype on 17 markers is almost identical with Cavadzade, with only difference on DYS389II-29 instead of 28 (DYS458-18.2 instead of 18; GATA H4-10 instead of 9)

    Azer-1.png

    His haplotype, with DYS390-25 and higher is pretty common in Iran and some parts of Iraq, with variance in other values

    Iran-17 markers.png

    Is Cavadze from the same part of Azerbaijan as Veliaga?

    On Turk project I also noticed one more sample, Ibrahim Kasim Lacinhan, 371415. I believe he could also be connected with Azerbaijans, at least looking on his marker values.

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